Deadly Ambulance Crash Tucson Az, A Reason No Passengers Allowed

[Dustdevil]

"Always" and "never" have no place in EMS.

Never?

as far as someone sueing you because you allowed them to ride, anything is possible, but if the accident is not your fault, it will be hard to get a judgement against the ambulance service...

Think again. Most agencies have a specific release that must be signed by students and observers, which outlines the potential hazards involved in EMS operations and emergent transportation. They have to read it, sign it, and get it notarised. Those people have been given legal notice of the risks they are taking, yet they still have no problem suing when something goes wrong. I have seen it. Now, throw someone in your ambulance who has not acknowledged receipt of that warning, and legally accepted the risks, and you don't stand a chance of successfully defending yourself from any resulting suit. That is why agencies settle, not because it is convenient, but because they have no chance of winning.

[reaper]

None of that is our problem!! They let their choices go out the window when they or their family activated 911. Now don't get me wrong, they can refuse any kind of treatment that EMS may want to do, but what you are talking about in your post is a hospital problem, not ems. If they are old and senile, then they aren't going to remember anything that goes on and if it is a cultural issue, then, sorry, but we have a job to do. And when it comes to children, parents tend to make the child more aggitated because they cant control themselves. Regardless how you want to look at it to justify somebody riding in that is not seeking medical attention, we still have a job to do and we need to cover our own butts. So what if their feelings get hurt or they get offended, at least you will still have a job. There's nothing that states that we have to allow anybody to ride in.

When you actually have any EMS experience, then come back and debate!

I have never had a parent freak out in my truck, whether up front or in the back. If a parent is emotional, then I explain to them that they will not be aloud to ride, unless they can control themselves.

When I transport children, I usually have a parent in the back. It helps keep the child calm and I can get any info I need from them. If I suspect a problem, then they ride up front or follow along. If it is a serious call, then they can ride up front, they would be in the way in the back.

Same goes for elderly or someone that does not speak English.

You need to use common sense and get off the high horse of authority!

[crotchitymedic1986]

so i guess when you are working a code, you dont allow firefighters to ride with you, because they havent signed a release ?

[spenac]

so i guess when you are working a code, you dont allow firefighters to ride with you, because they havent signed a release ?

No firefighter rides in my ambulance unless they are a patient.

Plus we do not do rolling codes. Any service worth anything does not do rolling codes they are against current guidelines.

[Dustdevil]

so i guess when you are working a code, you dont allow firefighters to ride with you, because they havent signed a release ?

Don't get goofy on us. Firefighters are defacto employees of the system.

[Mateo_1387]

None of that is our problem!! They let their choices go out the window when they or their family activated 911. Now don't get me wrong, they can refuse any kind of treatment that EMS may want to do, but what you are talking about in your post is a hospital problem, not ems. If they are old and senile, then they aren't going to remember anything that goes on and if it is a cultural issue, then, sorry, but we have a job to do. And when it comes to children, parents tend to make the child more aggitated because they cant control themselves. Regardless how you want to look at it to justify somebody riding in that is not seeking medical attention, we still have a job to do and we need to cover our own butts. So what if their feelings get hurt or they get offended, at least you will still have a job. There's nothing that states that we have to allow anybody to ride in.

What exactly is a hospital problem? Do you not consider EMS an extension of the hospital? I do, and as such, I administer care along the same lines as the hospital. Parents will want to be with their children as well as children of older parents may wish to be with their parents as they receive medical care. With family present, it will help to calm our patients and keep their emotional needs in check. Especially with dying patients, I firmly believe loved ones should be near by. I realize in an ambulance, it is not practical to transport the whole family. Transporting a caregiver for an older adult, or both parents, may be needed, as the ride to the hospital may be the patient's last. We, as medical professionals are not just there for the patient, but we are also there to satisfy the family. When we piss off the family, or do not perform to their wishes, whatever the family says will help give us an even bigger black eye.

Cynical_as_hell, your second to last sentence ( "So what if their feelings get hurt or they get offended, at least you will still have a job." ) is disturbing. I sense no compassion at all. One thing I have noticed that EMS lacks a lot of is compassion for the other person. Too many times we come across as dickheads to everyone. Something we all need to work on to give EMS a good name.

I did not say no family participation. I said no family allowed in the ambulance. The harm they can cause far outways any benefit to the patient. Those of you that allow passengers might want to get your company to check insurance many insurance companys even only cover the patient and crew, so any additional passengers would not be covered.

And yes your right tats have no place in EMS but that is a whole unrelated arguement.

As to the senile they are like the child and as such may have a family member go. Anyone w/o the right to make medical decisions are allowed a guardian with power to make decisions in the ambulance front seat. So guess what that means the 12 year old pregnant girl in labor has no one ride with her as she can make her own decisions at that point.

Spenac, when you ride your 90-mile trip to the hospital, with the family following behind, you are not allowing them any participation. 90 miles is a long time for the patient to die. You may be the last person that is with that patient when they die, but you will not replace the comfort a patient may feel by dieing with a family member by their side. Also, as a parent, I will want to be with my child when they are given medical care, not in the front seat. When you separate children and parents, I think you are asking for trouble. Many times parents have rode in the back and helped to calm their children down.

I thought the reference to tattoos was clear, but I will try again to explain. Many people call for the regulation of tattoos in EMS because they say tattoos will cause undue stress on another individual (which I think is bogus). Companies may regulate tattoos. Not a big deal, in my opinion. On the flip side, some say no family in the back of the ambulance, disregarding any stress it may cause your patient. I find it problematic regulating the emotional bonds of family. The point is why regulate one cause of patient stress while ignoring the other?

[emtannie]

There is nothing in the article that states if the man (the patient’s friend) who died was in the back, or in a seat up front. So, in assuming that this man was in the back of the ambulance with the patient, you are guessing. One could also guess that the ambulance was hit on the passenger side door, where this person was sitting, and injuries sustained due to the impact killed him.

Quote from the article: “The ambulance was conducting a normal patient transfer and did not have any of its emergency equipment activated, police said.”

Dust said “IFT’s ≠ EMS” ….. it would appear that this was an IFT…..

And cynical…..

None of that is our problem!! They let their choices go out the window when they or their family activated 911. Now don't get me wrong, they can refuse any kind of treatment that EMS may want to do, but what you are talking about in your post is a hospital problem, not ems. If they are old and senile, then they aren't going to remember anything that goes on and if it is a cultural issue, then, sorry, but we have a job to do. And when it comes to children, parents tend to make the child more aggitated because they cant control themselves. Regardless how you want to look at it to justify somebody riding in that is not seeking medical attention, we still have a job to do and we need to cover our own butts. So what if their feelings get hurt or they get offended, at least you will still have a job. There's nothing that states that we have to allow anybody to ride in.

Wow..... your lack of empathy and compassion are in themselves amazing, considering the profession you are in. Your understanding of dealing with children and your comment of "parents tend to make the child more agitated because they can't control themselves" amazes me as well.... check the research, the textbooks, and talk to ER and Peds docs.... I think they will beg to differ.

The "old and senile" comment was completely unprofessional, and shows a complete lack of understanding and education on dementia and mental health issues. Again, talk to a geriatric specialist and see what they say about your comment... and learn from them.

Of course there are situations where family members are a detriment to patient care. Use common sense and good judgment, and the assistance of the other professionals at the scene if you have to, to keep them out of your ambulance. There are also situations where having a family member in the ambulance is a good idea. I have refused family members, and I have taken family members along. They do not necessarily have to be in the back with the patient.

[brentoli]

The "old and senile" comment was completely unprofessional, and shows a complete lack of understanding and education on dementia and mental health issues. Again, talk to a geriatric specialist and see what they say about your comment... and learn from them.

+1

That did nothing but make you look like a Grade A Jackass, cynical. And not the kind people respect either. Try spending some time, or living for a few years, or being the son of an "old and senile" man. Then come back and tell us what you learned. The more I read your comment the more amazed I get that a so called "professional" EMS worker would say something like that, ESPECIALLY in a public forum. Probably a good thing you don't put what town you work in, I am sure your populus would LOVE to read statements like that coming from one of their Ambulance Drivers.

[spenac]

You that say decide case by case are opening yourselves and your company to discrimination law suits. You either have to live be set standard one way or the other. Case by case leaves to much open to scrutiny. This is why you should be consitent in patent care, documentation, etc. If taken to court you can bet the lawyers will be looking for any inconsistency so they can hang you.

Mateo the harm and danger far out weighs the mental comfort. That 90 miles leads to a lot more being done and you do not want to have the driver or the medic with the patient having to fight with the family member. I do see your point but disagree.

Again Tats are not comparing apples to apples, more like apples to watermelons.

[cynical_as_hell]

+1

That did nothing but make you look like a Grade A Jackass, cynical. And not the kind people respect either. Try spending some time, or living for a few years, or being the son of an "old and senile" man. Then come back and tell us what you learned. The more I read your comment the more amazed I get that a so called "professional" EMS worker would say something like that, ESPECIALLY in a public forum. Probably a good thing you don't put what town you work in, I am sure your populus would LOVE to read statements like that coming from one of their Ambulance Drivers.

my company is well aware of how i feel about things. I am not one to sit back and let my thoughts be unknown. The difference between me and most, I can put on a pretty dam good game face when dealing with the public. It's easy to full idiots into thinking you truly care what's going on in their life. This job is like any other job, its not more special, or more fulfilling. Its a job.