The Ultimate Wacker Kit (no Joke) 5k Spent On It

[spenac]

Thanks for the kind response. I assume most people will attack my position, but I'm fine with that.

Some people have given suggestions, but most is just attacks, which helps nobody.

As stated, the bag is not mine. I'm trained as a first responder, although I do not work in the medical field, so I'm lost when you guys start talking about drugs.

Here is the start of a more productive discussion of a jump bag.

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php?showtopic=14409&hl=

[Lone Star]

I thought I would reply to give you Zombie Squads view, since I am a member there.

Zombie Squad is a serious organization, about being prepared and ready for disasters. Nobody really believes Zombies are really going to come back to life, but the theory is, if you are prepared for a scenario where the walking corpses of your family and neighbors are trying to eat you alive, you will be prepared for almost anything. There is also a lighter side where people ask what to do in a zombie invasion, but that part is not to be taken seriously.

With this is mind, I do not think the First Aid kit listed is quite as extreme as you guys are making it out to be. Imagine a 9/11 type attack, Katrina, or something even worse. Medical supplies in the area might run out, and there could be a while before they are replenished. If the person with this first aid kit has a doctor or paramedic nearby, this could save somebody's life. Even by himself, there are many supplies that he can use.

There are valid criticisms, and I don't think everybody needs to be running around with all the equipment listed, but if somebody wants to spend money, then I don't care what they spend it on, provided they are responsible with it, which I would assume the person with the first aid kit will be. Imagine if there was a car wreck, and you were driving by, and stopped and he handed you this first aid kit. If you are in a remote area, and ambulance could be 45 minutes or more away, surely this first aid kit could save somebody life.

Ideally the person with the kit will get the training, and then he won't rely on a stranger, but until then, this is better than nothing.

Not to get too much off topic, but how many of you guys keep a First Aid kit in your car? Being an EMT, I would hope its 100%, training an no supplies is good, but training and a really good first aid kit, is certainly much better.

Please take some time and read up on Zombie Squad, you will find out that we are not all crazy. We would love to have EMT's post their opinion so we can all learn a bit more.

Ideally the person with the kit WILL get the training. REALISTICALLY, the person that has the kit is carrying around controlled narcotics, and other tools that he is OBVIOUSLY NOT trained to use!

I've seen some of the Zombie Squad's 'promotional videos'. I've seen NOTHING there that indicates that they're anything more than a bunch of 'Buffy the vampire slayer' wannabe's. To me, these are the same people that predicted the 'end of the world' with Y2K!

You say that the pictured 'first aid kit' isnt as 'extreme as we want to make it out to be'....what would you call running around with just enough controlled narcotics (and no training to put them to use) as well as just enough 'OTC and medicine cabinet rejects'? As has been stated in many posts (by REAL Doctors), there isn't enough of anything other than the morphine to really do anything 'productive'.

Endotracheal tubes with no oxygen, none of the 'basic equipment' is there. One or two bags of NS, a bag of D-50...no BGL meter....

Since Paragon has admitted that he's not trained in using a pulseoxymeter, what in the hell is he/she doing with IV starts, laryngoscopes, etts and injectible narcotics?

Even the 'Good Samaritan Laws' wouldn't protect him/her because of the equipment they possess and would probably attempt to use! Furthermore, I'm sure that even Paramedics can't carry half that stuff in their own private kits, and they're EDUCATED AND TRAINED to use it!

As far as I can tell, "Zombie Squad" is nothing more than a rag tag collection of anarchists with more money than brains!

[ERDoc]

With this is mind, I do not think the First Aid kit listed is quite as extreme as you guys are making it out to be. Imagine a 9/11 type attack, Katrina, or something even worse. Medical supplies in the area might run out, and there could be a while before they are replenished. If the person with this first aid kit has a doctor or paramedic nearby, this could save somebody's life. Even by himself, there are many supplies that he can use.

Welcome to the site. Thank you for starting with a very well thought out and meaningful post. I can almost guarantee you that most on here, including myself, have some form of first aid kit in our cars. The issue is having a first aid kit that has more equipment than some small ERs. A big issue is the meds. I find it very hard to believe that this person has legitimate prescriptions for these. There should be red flags going off at the DEA (then again, you know how the govt works). As a doctor I can tell you that if someone came up to me with this bag and no appropriate identification there is no way I would be using their meds. I have no way of confirming they're valid meds and therefore will not be giving them to any patients. This guy would get a polite thanks but no thanks.

[Canadian Caesar]

One or two bags of NS, a bag of D-50...no BGL meter....

Well, actually there is a BGL meter. Just to give credit where little credit is due...

[fireflymedic]

Hmmm, well here are my thoughts on this.

1. You can have whatever you want (within legal reason) to keep in your car/on your person so long as you don't present yourself as being able to use it or actually use it. So if you want bags of IV fluids and a ton of caths, that's just dandy, you just better not ever use 'em without med direction.

2. In some areas medics do keep ALS kits for themselves as they have extreme response times and if they live way out in the county, they will respond often times before EMS can. In those situations, they are considered on call and covered by the med director. I used to be in this situation, so I am aware of certain places which do, however, they are a rarity and your med director better damn well trust you !

3. If you work extreme wilderness camps (like the kid boot camps or extreme retreats like survivor type scenario) or as a sherpa whatever where medical response could be significantly delayed, due to weather or location or even situation, yes I could see something of this type being practical (though perhaps not this in particular) and ALWAYS used by someone with appropriate training though I think that goes without saying.

Other than that, this person is an idiot and needs to be turned into the state med board for at the least, possessing the meds with an intent to distribute. 300 mg vial of morphine? I have serious doubts that is for personal use and if it is, they have a serious drug problem. Give me a rest, I don't know of ANY doc that would prescribe out all this !

[brentoli]

Welcome to the site. Thank you for starting with a very well thought out and meaningful post.

+1

Ideally the person with the kit WILL get the training. REALISTICALLY, the person that has the kit is carrying around controlled narcotics, and other tools that he is OBVIOUSLY NOT trained to use!

I would have to agree, this is the reason most of the people here have been so vocal about it. There is no harm in being a good samaritan in a disaster. If he had a "trauma kit" as opposed to an "ER" the responses would be very diffrent. Kerlix, 4x4's, Asprin... nothing at all wrong with someone having stocks of those. The biggest issue here, is getting into the narcs, the airway supplies, sutures... things this person has said he has no training in at all. I would have to agree with Doc on this one, you could bring me this kit, I would be impressed, but I wouldn't use any of the advanced supplies even if I had the training in 99% of senarios.

[Lone Star]

The main thing to remember here is that the owner of this kit has no medical training or education. If he violates the 'scope of practice' of the mulitmedia first aider, there is no 'Good Samaritan Act protection' afforded to him. The key phrase to the Good Samaritan Act is that the treatments rendered would be the same treatments used by a similarly trained individual in similar circumstances. When you start injecting morphine, lidocaine and setting IV's, you've violated the key phrasing of the Good Samaritan Act.

Remember that if an EMT-B uses balms, salves or lotions, that is a violation of their 'scope of practice', even if it IS only 'OTC' stuff!

It is realistically impossible for me to know all the state and local laws from around this great country, but I DO know that in MI, if you have syringes, IV starts, laryngoscopes/ETT's in your personal 'first aid kit'...you're in a world of shit!

Rural medics that carry these kits tend to only use them on actual patients that have called for an ambulance. I'm sure they don't carry them around for the implied 'cool factor'.

If a responder begins rendering aid, he must not leave the scene until it is necessary to call for needed medical assistance, a rescuer of equal or higher ability takes over, or continuing to give aid is unsafe.[11] The responder is not legally liable for the death, disfigurement or disability of the victim as long as the responder acted rationally, in good faith, and in accordance with his level of training.[12]

http://www.answers.com/topic/good-samaritan-doctrine

[fireflymedic]

Lone

So very very true, I would have actually preferred most of the time to NOT have had that stuff in my personal possession to worry about. As far as intending to use it on "real" patients. Yep, our rules were if we broke open our seal, then WE had to accompany the patient on the ambulance and sign the run sheet as the attendant even if there was another medic present to take care. That was just the way it was. Other services may act differently, but that's how it was for us. I'm not seeing much wrong with that direction to take either. As far as this guy, hes just outta control and needs someone to slap him upside the head. I thought this was a joke a first glance, sad to realize it wasn't 'cause I got a good laugh outta it.

[EMS49393]

I can almost guarantee you that most on here, including myself, have some form of first aid kit in our cars.

I have a bandaid in my glove box.

Seriously though, the issue isn't bandaids, gauze, or even tylenol. The biggest issue I see with this bag is the 300 mg of Morphine. That's enough narcotic to kill several horses. You could park every ambulance in my company on the lot and we wouldn't have 300 mg of Morphine between us all. Keep in mind I work urban EMS, so there are a lot of trucks to park.

[tniuqs]

There is something to that theory Ruff.

The service I just moved out of covered about 2500 people. We had one health centre (like a day clinic) one Dr. one Paramedic and 4 EMT's. The first major hospital was about 2.5hrs away and forget about air amb, they don't service out there.

A kit like this (overkill as it may be) may actually have some merit in a setting like that one.

Some of the stuff is real nonscence....... but imagine an explosion in the school in that remote of a setting.

Or a town wide disaster during a heavy snowfall when the roads are impassible.

Just sayin

Mobey : Funny Thing Dude, we live in a different world.

My first post got eatten by the internet gods ... ps I have chains, 4x4 and have more "gak" than this yo yo's kit bs kit gimme a call and will give you a hand up ... ps medicnorth has chains too and has a frozen moose in da fridge ... my nieghbour a gennie and fuel till the spring.

cheers

HEY and if the shit REALLY hits the fan .... no taxes .... ho hoo.