Sorry Can't Help, I'm on Break - EMT Admits Incompetence

[Dustdevil]

I think you will find it was intentionally evenly balanced, or at least the best I could do without bending the truth.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I had no concerns for your objectivity. I think you did a great job there. I just don't see where any of the information you posted exhibits a tendency for UK workers to work smarter. And certainly, refusing to render medical aid because you are on a tea break is no indication of working smart. It's an example of failing to work at all.

The term is subjective, and in reference to the general work "ethic".

In both the UK and the US, workers do whatever they need to do to get by. Because you are required to do less to get by in the UK doesn't make your work any smarter, or your ethic any greater. It simply is what it is.

Working smarter, not harder.

While these are positive things, this is not particularly relevant to a discussion of the work ethic. The devices that you use are not a reflection of the individual workers' ethics. It is simply a reflection of the industrial state of the art.

[scott33]

In both the UK and the US, workers do whatever they need to do to get by. Because you are required to do less to get by in the UK doesn't make your work any smarter, or your ethic any greater. It simply is what it is.

You know, I really can't argue that point.

I have a friend in the UK who took serverance pay from his old job (in fact we both took it at the same time about 10 years ago). Difference being, he has opted out of the whole "working" thing, and he pretty much gets by on government benefits.

That's not working smart either, that's just bloody lazyness.

[CBEMT]

Difference being, he has opted out of the whole "working" thing, and he pretty much gets by on government benefits.

That's not working smart either, that's just bloody lazyness.

Actually, if you think about it, it IS working smarter- the European model makes living off the dole an even more lucrative endeavor than American welfare. Assuming you had a choice, it'd be no contest where to be a leach!

[scott33]

Actually, if you think about it, it IS working smarter- the European model makes living off the dole an even more lucrative endeavor than American welfare. Assuming you had a choice, it'd be no contest where to be a leach!

The UK has always had the issue of the working class subsidising those above (HRH and her buddies) and those below (the dole merchants). I am guilty as charged of chosing unemployment over dead-end job in my teens, as it was very accessable when I was in my youth. Free money!

These days, there are limits and conditions, and one has to be actively looking for work to claim unemployment benefit, but it is not impossible to live your entire life, never having either worked, or broken the law. The problem is with those who abuse the system.

More recently, some of the more heated issues are more related to the freedom to live anywhere in the United States of Europe, and the British invasion of non-English speaking, non-skilled aliens who (and I will put this in quotes) "are given free houses, free food, and our jobs" is causing malcontent similar to that in the US. Those less wealthy and more recent countries to join the EU (Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia...) have the same rights of passage in any European Union country, as someone in Nebraska would have, if they wished to move to Maine. It's just a case of packing up and moving.

From the UK perspective, I can see the argument, but I have noticed the loudest voices occasionally come from those who have been milking the system for years.

[WelshMedic]

The silly assumption was that the U.S. work ethic can be found in Europe.

Obviously not.

That sweeping generalization is not worthy of you, my friend.

WM

[Dustdevil]

As I know that many Europaeans are grossly misinformed about the U.S., I certainly accept that I may be similarly misinformed about Europe. But I base my opinion here on the many news articles which I have seen comparing the work ethic of the two societies. Two quickly off of the Google:

http://select.nytimes.com/iht/2005/12/06/i...?_r=1&8hpib

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/aug/11/op...n/oe-ferguson11

The incident we are discussing in this thread seems, at least empirically, to play into those observations.

[Richard B the EMT]

For the record, I hope everyone notices when I indicate something as local protocol, I emphasize that it is local protocol.

[WelshMedic]

Thanks Dust for the links.

First of all let me say that I am not denying that any of this is true. However, I would like to nuance one or two areas, particularly in relation to the first article. First of all, in the current climate of polarization of the migrancy debate, it has to be noted that the comments were made by a politician. What will you hear from a politician? The vox populi, of course! That's how he gets elected for each term. The fact remains that it is a very small minority of immigrants that refuse to integrate and are intent upon being "a leach" on society. You may wonder why this subject is close to my heart? Well, that's simple: I have the same skin color, am completely assimilated into dutch society. However, I am and always will be a migrant.

I am aware of the fact that there is a difference in work culture between the US and Europe. Note that I avoid the term "work ethic". To me, the term "ethics" is irrevocably intertwined with a set of personal beliefs and values. That is why I am so vehemenently opposed to any generalizing comparison.

One of the reasons that we enjoy better pay and benefits in Europe is that we have a long and rich tradition of trade unionism. We have had a system of collective responsibility and representation for more than 200 years, something which I passionately believe in. Of course, there is a price to pay for all of this: taxation. However, this is a relatively small price to pay in camparison to the benefits we enjoy. In any society there will be opportunities to milk the system, one may also argue that it would be easier in Europe. It still, as I already stated, is a very small minority.

Furthermore, it could also be argued (and has been for a long time) that when one looks at productivity levels, things are a much more even playing field. Take EMS, you yourself are a fervent opponent of the 24-48-72 hour shift patterns that are commonplace in some quarters of our profession. Working a 36 hr week and then closing the door to spend time with your family is of irreplaceable value. I, for one, do not intend giving it up.

WM

[nremtp]

I am a Paramedic in the UK and you really need to live or work here within the EMS system to understand the meal break issue.

Imagine working for 12 hours solid with no opportunity to rest or take a break, with no food, drink or being able to use the toilet.

We are entitled by law to a protected rest period, this falls under the Working Time Directive and Driving Hours legislation.

If we are on a break then we only have a legal duty to respond in line with our employment contracts. Where I currently work we are required to respond in our break period but if we do then we get paid £20 for the inconvenience. In my new employment which I am currently transferring to, we have a protected break where they aren't allowed to disturb us.

To the poster who mentioned granny coding, that isn't my problem! If I am on my break then I am not available and dispatch can utilise another resource to respond. It is not my job to fly around the city in a red cape saving all the citizens. This is a job, it is a job I enjoy but it is no more and no less. I am a professional paramedic paid to do a job and the hobbyist EMS in the USA struggle to understand that concept. We have the same problem with the Johnners over here who are undermine this as a professional career.

I respond when I am paid to respond because this is the career I have chosen, I don't do it for free as I am a professional and deserve a level of pay commensurate with my qualifications and experience. This isn't a hobby and I am a human being who needs to rest in order to function safely.

I wouldn't expect an EMS system which has 48 hour shifts to understand my point of view though......

We in the UK take worker's rights very seriously and we are required to function safely and effectively as part of the EMS team. I cannot function safely if I am so tired and so hungry that I cannot concentrate. What use am I to the patient if my BSL is so low through not eating for 12 hours that I feel faint and sick? What use am I to the patient (or any other road user) if I am so tired that I cannot concentrate on the road as I haven't had a break in 12 hours?

Think about the bigger picture, it is not any individual paramedic's job to take on the care of every patient in the city; that is why we have dispatch and other resources.

From what I have read, I really am not suprised that USA paramedics burn out so quickly!

[Richard B the EMT]

OK, nremtp, just to keep up with the Jones family...

FDNY EMS works 8 hour tours, with a few units now in a pilot program for 12 hour tours. I will confine myself to the 8 hour tours, of which I have a better working knowledge.

The tour is actually 7.5 hours, with that missing half hour supposed to be used for meal. A unit requests meal, dispatch usually grants it, but there is no protection for staying undisturbed at meal. Also, if the area activity is busy, the unit won't even get the chance to request meal break, and have back to back assignments.

With that in mind, any crew that doesn't get meal break can file for the half hour as overtime, on the proper paperwork, on their return to the station, base, or firehouse. Some even bring their meal from home (so called "Brown bagging it"), eat as opportunity presents, never call in for the meal break, and still file for the missed meal overtime.

However, if the crew is needed for an assignment, they get the assignment. If they get a walk-up request, they are to call in that they have a walk-up request (and where!), more commonly referred to as a flag-down, and handle it, and this is per current policy.

Years prior to the merger, Bronx unit 21 David was on a meal break, when someone ran up to them and told them of a cardiac arrest call, CPR in progress, a block away. They actually could see the event.

No, they didn't respond, they didn't even call it in! They told the requesting person to call 9-1-1!

In the next few days, the crew was first reassigned to non patient contact areas within the department, and then fired, losing their state certifications as EMTs at the behest of the EMS.

The news coverage gave the vehicle's "shop number", so, in fear that any crew in that vehicle would be assaulted, as retaliation, in the belief they were the non responding crew, that vehicle sat for a week outside headquarters, before being reassigned to another station in another borough.

The crews that also worked under the 21 David radio call sign had to move to wait between calls at a different location than where they'd been before the incident.

Within the service, the unit, even the non-involved crews, were held in contempt, and referred to, not as 21 David, but 21 Deli (as in delicatessen).

Edited June 19, 2009 by Richard B the EMT