Advocacy group for keeping fire out of EMS?

[scope2776]

After a search of both the forums and the internet at large I was unable to find an advocacy group for keeping fire out of EMS.

The topic of fire based EMS and its merits has been disscussed ad nausem on this forum. It is my belief fire based EMS is a method of delivering EMS care, but not the best or most efficient. And without dirverting into another flame war I was wondering if anyone is aware or knows of an advocay group or political action group that advocates for keeping fire out of EMS?

The problem with NAEMT and associated organizations is that they won't take a stand against their fire department members because they comprise a large percentage of their membership (officers included) and the NAEMT depends on members for revenue.

The fire departments have the "Fire Service-Based EMS Advocates" organization. This organization is frequently spreading false truths about EMS delivery models.

Are there any candidates within the NAEMT or other organizations opposed to fire based EMS?

I envision an organization that fights potential take-overs of EMS by political action.... any thoughts?

[fiznat]

I don't know any off the top of my head, and the reason is probably exactly what you stated: fear of losing firefighter-based membership. It probably also doesn't help that a large majority of EMS workers have no interest in staying in this job as a career and - when it comes down to it - really could care less what happens after they leave.

[spenac]

Why don't you form one? It would need to be free and supported by donations. Form a non profit organization.

[crotchitymedic1986]

I am not aware of any advocacy groups, but the best advice I can give is to not let your non-fire based EMS system become unprofitable.

It is painful to say, much like telling a 3-pack a day smoker that he could avoid lung cancer if he would just quit smoking. We in EMS have to swallow the bitter medicine and realize that:

Transporting about 50% of your patients is not good enough, unless you reduce man-hours proportionally.

You should take over the non-emergent market in your area, which can prevent takeover from Fire or the private service who is currently handling non-emergencies.

You dont need more chiefs than you need indians -- you have to keep administrative overhead low.

You need a billing department that bills your calls as if their job depends on it --- most county 911 providers are very lax about collections.

[fiznat]

You should probably be "pro" something rather than "anti" something, by the way. It makes for a better argument I think and there are some PR issues as well.

Third service EMS, anyone?

[HellsBells]

If such an organization exists or if anyone here is willing to form one, I would be willing to volunteer my time, and money to the cause. Additionally, I think that I could get my local union involved as well.

[msenecal]

In my opinion

Non fire based services need to improve on their professionalism and out perform the fire-based services. I have worked the majority of my career in non-fire based services and had a short tenure at a fire based service. In the fire service professionalism is high and EMS was not a priority.

If you look at Tri-State Ambulance in La Crosse WI they recently have thwarted an attempt by the city fire department to start a transporting service by maintaining a high level of service and professionalism. The community rallied behind the service and pressured the city council and mayor to back down (for now).

There are many non-fire based EMS services that lack professionalism and leave an open door for the fire service to step in. That is how we stop the fire service from taking over EMS.

[scope2776]

How about "Advocates for Ambulance based EMS"? It could also be centered around improving professionalism and business development of ambulance based EMS services.

Do you think there would be a lot of support for this kinda thing?

[spenac]

In my opinion

Non fire based services need to improve on their professionalism and out perform the fire-based services. I have worked the majority of my career in non-fire based services and had a short tenure at a fire based service. In the fire service professionalism is high and EMS was not a priority.

If you look at Tri-State Ambulance in La Crosse WI they recently have thwarted an attempt by the city fire department to start a transporting service by maintaining a high level of service and professionalism. The community rallied behind the service and pressured the city council and mayor to back down (for now).

There are many non-fire based EMS services that lack professionalism and leave an open door for the fire service to step in. That is how we stop the fire service from taking over EMS.

Well I know we need improvement but I have just the opposite experience. But this is about forming an organization that could go out and lobby for EMS to be seperate. Part of its mission could be to promote professionalism.

Pre-Hospital Medical Professionals Promoting Quality Patient Care

[VentMedic]

You are not going to defeat Fire-Based EMS with an anti whatever compaign or advocacy group. The fragmentation of the Paramedic profession is what has gotten it into the mess it is in. To create lines of division that are even more harsh will not accomplish much for the profession as a whole. For such an organization to be successful you must unite the advocates for EMS in medical terms regardless of where they work.

If one is a Paramedic, whether it is for the city, county, FD or private service, there should be higher minimal education and standards or for professionalism or at least working toward these goals. Some in both the FDs and non-fire services have already achieved this. But, there are also many in private, county/city EMS and Fire based sectors that still promote the warm body idea of professionalism.

The focus at this time should be about education and professionalism. Once those standards are raised we'll see who can maintain to the higher level. Fire may decide if a two year degree was to become mandatory that they may lose interest OR they could use it to their advantage to get more money for education through grants and taxes. Private services that had been milling their own for years could also feel the pinch. Either way, it will be up to the individuals to decide if they have got what it takes to get a degree and be held to a higher standard regardless of where they work. It may discourage many who join the FD just for the benefits if they had to have a two year degree as a Paramedic instead of the 3 month special. It might also discourage the "every FF must be a Paramedic" mentality. For the private sector it might discourage the L&S freaks who have nothing to offer in terms of patient care. Then, we can get back to have only those with an interest in medicine being on the ambulances regardless of what service.