Evolution

[vs-eh?]

Because one doesnt believe in god doesnt make one closed minded. Do I believe in a higher being, other than god, yes. Do I believe that this higher being created heaven, earth, people etc. no. I should have said I am a practioner of buddhism, and have been for 25 yrs.

Ya sorry...I think when people say God, they instantly think white hair/beard, robes, big ass chair on a cloud, You know God...That's why I was saying "a God", where God is a higher being...sorry, should have clarified.

Higher being = HB from now on.

On a related note, I worked the dedicated Dalai Lama's visit for 4 days to Toronto. A crew specifically for him, and another one for everyone else. Amazing experience. I didn't actually talk to the man, but it was great. Monks were cool guys...

[Guest]

VS,

No problem Many confuse an HB with God...oh well such is life.

I got to see the Dali Lama a few years ago and shook his hand. It was quite the experience.

[Tibby]

Not like the crap I get when I tell them I dont believe in god.

Don't make the mistake you are the only person who has faced over-zealous Religious types. They don't attack you because of what you believe, they attack you because of the fact that you don't believe what they do. Some Christians will attack other Christians with just as much zeal as they attack you. You aren't special.

[Tibby]

Some Deists do and some believe God may intervene in human affairs.

Then they are not Deists.

For example, when George Washington was faced with either a very risky evacuation of the American troops from Long Island or surrendering them he chose the more risky evacuation. When questioned about the possibility of having them annihilated he said it was the best he could do and the rest is up to Providence."

Is Washington alluding to God is that really proof that Deists believe in god? It could just ask easily be turned around as proof that Washington was in fact a Christian. Atheists, Deists, agnostics, and Christians all love to put there brands on the Founding Fathers. And it is not hard task to find evidence to prove any one of these groups rights. You cannot say without a doubt that Washington was a Deist. Oh sure, you can post hundreds of sites and quotes proving it, but any of the other guys can to the very same thing, and most of them will ironically enough use the same examples (like the one you gave above) as proof.

From Deism.com...under the FAQ page on defining Deism and its tenants.

"Abandoned" is a harsh word and not one I ever heard before when discussing deism...but you can go the site and see what others have written and make your own conclusion.

Noah Webster's thoughts on the subject are a little different. A deist is, had been, a person who believes God set things up, and does not interfere. That is the very definition of Deism, and anything else is not Deism.

[Guest]

Don't make the mistake you are the only person who has faced over-zealous Religious types. They don't attack you because of what you believe, they attack you because of the fact that you don't believe what they do. Some Christians will attack other Christians with just as much zeal as they attack you. You aren't special.

Never said I was special :wink:

[MedFire]

Good simple explanation.

Adaptation/evolution...meh, kinda one in the same to me but. I think people hear evolution, that we "evolved" from chimpanzee's (which is untrue, we likely "evolved" from a common ancestor), and it scares them. The vast time frame generally involved in adaption on a species/subspecies level can't be contemplated.

Now this makes more sense to me. I see them as the same also. hehe kinda reminds me of the 6 degrees of separation on the genetic level.

[Mark3743]

Thanks to whoever posted about Deism.com, I think I will enjoy checking it out! I believe there has too have been/is some kind of adaptation or evolution occurring but I am more than a little skeptical about the genesis version of events. So I come firmly down on the side of evolution.

[emt_hound]

Tibby,

So, when exploring the tenants of the Roman Catholic faith, you'll be relying on Webster's Dictionary for the definitive final word on what is and what isn't a Roman Catholic?

Gosh, how shortsighted.

I don't have a close personal relationship with Deism. I only know what I've read and talked about in my various history and philosopy courses. Feel free to contact the webmaster at deism.com and notify them that they have mislabeled themselves.

[Guest]

I have a friend who believes in evolution via creation... or some such. He has a Psych / Soc Degree (I know, they're a dime a dozen), and has some specific reasonings for his belief. Yet another spin on this topic.

[Alcomedicism]

Ok I guess I'll chime in with my piece.

Do I believe in a God? I dont know. Like it was said earlier, you cant disprove something that cant be proved in the first place.

I too had a falling out with God and the church. I tried being a bible thumper for almost 3 years of my life. After the minister pretty much molested me and I tried to stand up to him and everything went sour. The church abandoned me in a time of need so I said screw god and all the little children that he supposedly loves. I dont care to get religified anytime soon.

Soon thereafter I witnessed several tragic events that pretty well soured me for life. This is when I first started struggling with alcohol and drugs. I have always struggled with depression and oddly church seemed to make it worse, always striving for perfection in everything. I felt I could never measure up so I ended up worse off mentally even though on the outside everything seemed to be going smoothly.

Sure I could tell you the story of my salvation, but I have say that anyone who is considering becoming a Christian, not to scare them off, but at first EVERYONE will pat your back and will encourage you for the first 3 or 4 mos or so and then they will dump you for something better, a new Christian that is completely uneducated about the bible. I can tell you after I got "saved" I went from nearly flunking out of high school due to an "I-dont-care attitude" towards school. I finished 9th grade with a 1.8 GPA. My 10th grade year I made honor roll everytime. Got perfect scores on damn near everything, maintained a 3.9 GPA 90% of the time. I was elected to represent my school as a delegate to Arkansas Girls State that summer, went on to become a camp counselor at a childrens Summer Camp. Was elected as worship leader for my church's vacation bible school program. I looked like I had it all going for me. But what most people didnt realize for the most part was this:

I was struggling with anorexia/bulimia at the time, I would not eat for fear of being impure, sounds lame but its true. I would not eat for up to 3 weeks at a time. I was running on fumes. I weighed at my lowest 108 lbs on a 5'4" frame. Bones. I would run for hours on end, as well as run for the school track and cross country teams. only 2% body fat at my peak.

I was also being molested by the youth minister, being molested by family members, that was not a fun part of my life at all. The only good part I remember is Susan and Jeannie, my two biggest encouragers at the time. Susan got married to rich man, allowed the money to go to her head and we had a falling out then came along Jeannie, I was on the brink of suicide and I was only 17. She held my hand and helped me through as best she could. Sure they were both Christians but the odd thing was they listened. I felt abandoned by Susan, and I still do, but maybe in the long run it was for the better.

After I tried to stand up for myself against my youth minister, everything went downhill. I was practically thrown out of the youth ministry, my YMs wife called and harrassed me at work on a daily basis, I was being blamed for their hardships and eventaully I started blaming myself for everyones hardships. I carried alot of weight on my shoulders.

After I left the church, I became very involved with alcohol. Drinking up to 10 drinks a day, even more on weekends, going to class hungover, still maintained my grades, my home life wasnt that great so I started couch-hopping around town sleeping on various friends' couches, mostly Jeannies though. And then we started a relationship, best one I've had yet. sShe showed me compassion and helped me through my first bout with alcoholism. i would often show up at her place drunk, but she took me in and chewed me out everytime, I still love her for it. Then she got a job offer out of state that she could not refuse, I told her to follow her dreams and with that I let her go. We still talk occassionally.

Then I went off to college to make something of myself, still on a drinking rampage though. I still maintained a high GPA of about 3.2 taking Honors courses. Then I met who is now my ex-husband. We were both drunk we got into an argument, he raped me I ended up pregnant, had a child, and we got married for the sake of the child, big mistake on my part. That marriage ended up being an abusive one from the beginning, then I ended up dropping out of college to support the child on my own. We seperated last spring and my divorce became official in October. I lost my house and all of my furniture due to bills that he ran up and put my name on that Im now legally responsible for. Me and my daughter currently live with my parents in a small 10x12 bedroom. And yes there is an extra bedroom, but my dad will not allow either me or my daughter to move in there.

I started dating another guy but he soon became very controlling and started stalking me everywhere. I could not go anywhere w/o him looking over my shoulder. He even came to my parents house demanding to know where I was at. He called himself a Christian. The only place I could go to get relief was the EMS station. He followed me to my daughters daycare he stalked me at work, everywhere. I felt safe in that station. One more reason to have perfect attendance to class. I didnt tell anyone about my stalker for fear of retaliation, but at least now I felt safer.

Then I met Rose and Lenny. I met Rose through my EMT-B course, she was my instructors partner. We hit it off immediately. Soon thereafter there was another relationship that went bad. Her and Lenny broke up over jealousy so Im currently seeing Lenny. This is the first relationship that Ive had with a man that I didnt feel bad about. He treats me well and he tries to get daughter to take to him. After everything got snafu'ed, I was blamed by Rose for a relationship gone bad and I was literally bad mouthed around the station. Made me feel bad so I decided to move on. Then one of my church going friends decided to run her mouth and caused me ALOT of pain and suffering. She went around town telling everyone about me and Rose, which made Rose even more upset. So I lost a good friend that day. I was definitely suicidal.

And now here I stand. Still hating god. My life hasnt changed much. Still dirt poor, still getting nowhere. And at least once a week I have someone calling me from the church inviting me to their next Sunday service. Kinda irks me since a majority of those churchgoers are very hypocritical. No one there truly cares, and now that its out, I cant bring myself to ever walk into a church again knowing what I will get in return.

Christians have been some of the meanest people I have ever met. As it was said before, they will chastise each other for not believing correctly. I also believe if given the chance most Christians would kill each other off for not being a certain way. I'll let them fight their own holy war and have their crusades. I dont believe in anything. I guess Im a bonafide atheist.

So in short, do I believe in evolution or creationism? I dont know, I guess we'll all find out in the end wont we? :wink:

-alco