Firing a Volunteer?

[Chief1C]

Generally not a good idea to let the mob make decisions

Depends. The whole of the membership is active, trains, keeps up with the necessary standards and the like.. and someone doesn't. Then, the lot of them, in a voluntary organization, gets to decide what happens. We sit in on a meeting, give a person one year to get up to state, local and personal company standards; and set an impression of themselves. If they fail to do so.. They don't get in. You don't get a second chance for five years. If you didn't make an effort when it was required, whats to say that will change.

It's not a mob if it's lowering standards and morale. It's all a team effort, and if you either don't fit in, or you just want the benefits with no effort.. The team should get to decide if you are worth the effort.

[tom5706]

I need your advice on a little predicament I have.

- He panics in any situation that's out of his comfort zone be it a clinical or non clinical situation.

- He smells.

- He refuses to take part in training and wonders off to fiddle around with something else or makes stupid comments and bangs on about old war stories that send everyone to sleep.

- We have to tell him to sit in the vehicle when were attending to a serious patient.

- He can not communicate at a normal level.

- He freaks out when a patient presents for assistance.

- The majority of volunteers refuse to work with him.

- His at every EMS activity, training, events and hangs around like a bad smell.

- The list could go on and on but I'm sure your head is already exploding.

How do I fire a volunteer?

Yikes, This guy sounds like an accident waiting to happen.. My thoughts are..tell him thanks you for your support, but you are a LIABILITY, not an asset, and your services are no longer needed.

[Timmy]

The scanner is a real issue, I had the appsault pleasure of working with him the weekend just past. We had to park the ambulance a fair distance from were the actual event was taking place and it required a lengthy walk down a steep embankment and a short distance down a sandy track along side the river bank and onto the beach. His fitness level was not at all adequate enough to cope in such an environment which put stress on other members having to pick up his slack. We set up in our area and he proceeded to fire up the scanner, all day he had the scanner blaring in full public view and past comment to members of the public on emergency calls occurring in the area.

When I approached him later that day and raised the issue of professionalism and requested that he put the scanner in his bag he laughed in my face and began to tell me all the reasons why he should have the scanner on. He sincerely thought his personal safety would be in jeopardy if he did not have the scanner as we were in dense bushland and if a raging bushfire occurred he would need any information that came to light. He basicly used a catastrophic event justify the need to have the scanner on. The thing that scared me was there was no doubt in his mind that what he was doing was the right thing yet it was very unprofessional, an invasion of privacy and incredibly annoying to the public. I have no doubt there is some form of mental health issue boiling away.

Once I dropped him home and I got home he sent me an SMS saying there was a house fire about 40mins from my house, he sends me regular SMS messages on fire calls around the area and if he knows my station is responding he will leave a voice mail requesting more information from me.

He has more interest in the local fire service than he ever will with EMS, he really needs to go.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Timmy

[celticcare]

We had a whacker like that in our unit, along with the two lovely examples I listed previous page, and this guy, worked for a local security firm, and had scanners of every type. Heard of an RTC on the expressway and instead of doing his job with the security firm, he rushed to the scene, put on a johnno's vest and started pulling people out of the car yelling "I'm an advanced paramedic "equivalent to EMT-P or MICA* and when real ALS arrived, tried to boss them around.....

He got suspended but not kicked out, because the service wants to hold on to as many vollies as it can. This guy also has epilepsy, admitted to not taking his meds, has had seizures and yet they let him do a driving course???????

Timbo, I shake my head with you, drop me a PM, I have been doing some reasearch to help ya out, plus need to catch up with you on a couple things, neighbour to neighbour.

Scotty

[Kiwiology]

I am truly shocked and horrified mate. This guy is beyond what I'd class as a whacker and he sounds like he has some mental health problems going on from what you describe. I don't know enough to speculate as to what he might have going on upstairs, and even if he doesn't, his actions are totally unprofessional and apalling to say the least.

I am not sure how your structure works over there in relation to ours but given the behaviour you describe I would document the hell out of it and just give him the boot; its not like he can sue you for wrongful dismissal.

Surely you must have standards, regulations etc ??????

I feel bad for you mate

Ben

[Richard B the EMT]

1) I am an admitted "Scannist", which is someone who is likely to have a scanner in possession. I am known for monitoring EMS, FD, LEO, Air Force One, US Coast Guard, and other city, county, state, and federal agencies, in both New York and New Jersey, and . However, I have worked for agencies that had written policy that on duty personnel were not to have a scanner with them. When I worked for them, I didn't carry the scanner with me.

2) Most of the Radio Hobby magazines I subscribe to, give suggestions on how to scan without drawing attention to one's self. One way is an earpiece. Just on general principals, NEVER blast the volume, as it annoys the neighbors (co-workers, patients, LEOs, Fire Fighters, and civilians) in close proximity.

3) Even if hand carried, a scanner is illegal in a vehicle in New York State. I am attempting to get the vehicle and traffic laws changed on that topic, but have no knowledge of any similar rules, regulations or laws in Australia.

4) I started out in the EMS field as a volunteer, and ran as such from 1973 to 1996, overlapping with paid employment, to the present. During that time, I attempted, and am still attempting, to complete any and all training either offered, or mandated. I continue that to this day. Most instructors I know wouldn't allow anybody to come in, and just hang out; they would have to participate, or be asked to leave the classroom. I got a bit rambunctious once, and I was asked to leave, so you know this goes across the board.

5) Nobody I know, who is a volunteer EMSer, Vollie Fire Fighter, or Auxiliary Police Officer, ever got any sort of "free ride" due to being a volunteer in regards to necessary training. If anything, due to the pride of being a volunteer, both the members, and the agencies themselves, held themselves to try to be as good, if not better, than their full time paid compatriots.

6) Might I suggest that if the agency does special events, all members who would work it earn the "right" to work it, by attendance and good performance at training sessions?

7) The OP stated that this individual was "Grandfathered in" despite the overweight condition. I suggest that all members be mandated to get a departmental form signed by their doctor, indicating what the crew person is expected to do, and if the person is physically capable of doing the required activities. This way, the doctor "fires" the individual, and not the agency.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Richard B the EMT

[Timmy]

The problem I see with having him removed from duty is my organization is very finically bias, in my state we have about 5000 volunteers and the service knocks back business nearly every week due to not having enough volunteers to meet demand, I’d say on an average week we’d cover 160 events state wide and they also have the contract for most of Australia’s biggest events.

Now, I say this with caution and with no refection on my service but purely based from my own observation. They really couldn’t give a continental about who there sending out to treat patients as long as the crew requirement is meet and there being paid for it. They couldn’t care less this guy is a complete moron and totally incompetent because if they lose an event over his unprofessionalism it doesn’t matter because they’ll just accept another event they previously rejected.

95% of those 5000 volunteers are great people to work with, there dedicated, willing to learn, professional and competent. Were lucky enough to have some extremely well know and knowledgeable health care professionals (doctors, nurse, paramedics) who are kind enough to volunteer there time to come out to events to mentor and educate the other volunteers as well as provide well structured training and education on other occasions.

Its quiet frustrating that they still let this 5% of idiots and incompetent morons volunteer because they give the organization a bad name which is a kick in the guts for the others who put in the time, effort and dedication to be competent providers.

[BushyFromOz]

Thanks for reminding me why i have not gotten back into johnnies timbo!

As long as the organisation fails to sort out these people it will remain a frustrating place to be.

Go hard buddy!

[crotchitymedic1986]

Doesnt matter if he is volunteer or paid, you do the same for all: Its called the progressive disciplinary process. When he behaves in an erratic manner or does something unprofessional, you write him up for "unprofessional behavior" - write him up 2-3 times, then fire him. But before you do that, ask yourself: is his unprofessionalism due to overeagerness to be accepted by anyone (does he have friends - i bet not). For all of the bad, you listed several good characteristics that he had -- he is dependable, he is take-charge (not good at it, but wants to do it), he wants to help. Is it possible to redirect him to tasks that he is good in ? None of you like him, but has he ever received any patient complaints ?

And no, I do not like MOB voting or MOB rule -- remember the definition of democracy is "three wolves and a chicken voting on whats for dinner". It is very easy to not fit in the clique, and then be ostracized from the group. I am willing to bet if you were hurt in an accident, this guy would be the first at your hospital bed, or at your home to help your family.

[308fan]

I bet that his disability pension has limits on what he can do or not do. Is he violating the rules of his pension? Had you thought about a call to the disability people to let them know he is doing all these things? That may stop it all right there.