FDNY EMS - Basic to Medic and More...

[WolfmanHarris]

Why should the transition from EMTB to paramedic be any different?

Because an intern gets experience as a new Doctor under supervision with their full theoretical and most of their practical education. Working as an EMT has no direct supervision other than luck of the draw of a good Paramedic partner who's willing to teach and the training given in a Basic course doesn't even speak the same language as a good Paramedic course. This experience they are gaining as an EMT is without clear direction and isn't an education; not in the way an MD intern is part of an organized residency program to complete their education under an attending physician. Sorry, but the parallels aren't there.

Now if EMT's start getting relevant education with a heavy focus on A&P, patho, pharmacology, etc but are held back from some of the ALS interventions than the experience gained here might be relevant. But without this their experience is based on a foundation of sand.

Here the convention is generally accepted that you do 2-5 years of BLS before moving onto ALS (though there are exceptions). However, our 2 year BLS education is designed to form a foundation for ALS and includes two full courses in A&P, one full course in Patho, one full course in Psychology, one in human growth and development, one in legal and ethical issues on top of our two years of patient care theory, practical lab, clinical rotations and ride outs. The text books we use are ALS text books as well. I've read two EMT-B books. They don't even speak the same language and read like the First Aid manuals I teach from.

I'm still in favour of combining both courses into a three to four year degree for one level of Paramedicine, but if you're going to have multiple levels, have them actually build on each other.

[NYCEMS]

I don't know why we have some who continue to think that? When I started about three years ago in my EMT class I heard the same thing. I also heard it out on the street too. "Get experience before you go to medic school." Flash forward to today and I can tell it is total BS and how wrong those that said it are. You do not need EMT experience to become a paramedic. You need an education: A&P, pharmacology, english composition, math to name a few, Use the search function here and you will see the consensus of what the members here think you need. Experience is not one of them.

Hearing this nonsense again and again gets my blood boiling.

I'm sorry to say but you'll be the guy who calls a 10-13 (help) because the guy you gave narcan to awoke and now what's to beat your a.. because you took his high away. Or you stood on the scene to long to do all your protocalls on this gun shot victim and the shooter returns. i have alot of respect for medic's but some stay and play on scene too dam loooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.

We on the other hand give it the best presumptive diagnosis we can and get the hell out.

Don't people walk before they run? Kinda makes sence doesn't it?

BLS ALWAYS BEFORE ALS,NURSE,DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LEARN, GET GOOD AT IT , THEN MOVEON. SKIPPING WILL HURT YOU.

AND BUDDY PLEASE "ANGRY" THAT'S KINDA DISRESPECTING EMT'S

[scubanurse]

NYCEMS-->

And I'm sorry to say you might be the guy called to the stand one day to testify and your EMS reports and personal credibility is called into question due to the inability to use proper grammar and spelling, it was difficult to discern what you were trying to get across at times. After reviewing some of your other 21 posts, I am further convinced in your need for a basic grammar and english course... or a tool to help you review your posts prior to posting. How you post on this forum is a reflection of not only you but the training and education you have. Consistently misspelling diagnose (you seem to spell it diagnos) and sense (you seem to spell it sent) are just a few examples of how you are providing further ammunition against your argument about book smarts versus field experience. Furthering the point that people need a proper education to become medics not just field experience....

"Also I totally disagree with you comment as far as knowledge. Book smart goes hand in hand with hands on experience. Knowledge is power." You even take the time to contradict yourself in another forum thread titled "Two Medical Call Reviews" so my question posed to you is which is it? knowledge is power or field experience?

A good medic will find the balance between book smarts and street smarts... and I vehemently believe that one can acquire both... not just through experience in the field as you say but also through the classroom and clinical experience. They will also learn that indeed BLS does come before ALS, and I am sorry if your experience with medics in the FDNY were not positive as they "stay and play on scene too dam loooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng" but that may be more appropriately attributed to the instructional system set up in the area for training medics, but I do not know enough about the program or department to pass judgment.

Harsh...maybe... but again your comment about doc being a poor medic because of his beliefs was pretty damn judgmental.... I suggest downloading firefox with spell check and continuing to contribute

Just my thoughts and opinion on the matter.

Edited April 21, 2009 by scubamedic

[CBEMT]

My first time stepping into an ambulace was working 911. I never volley'd, never did transport. First call of my career was a shooting to the face in the south bronx. See what I mean.

*Clap*

*Clap*

*Clap*

Congratulations. That and 7 bucks will get you a cup of Starbucks.

No wonder FDNY*EMS is "New York's Poorest." I wouldn't pay you as much as a firefighter either.

[Dragoon]

I'm not going to get into a pissing match here about the education and experience issue. Maybe I could have made my opinion clearer in that you need an education to do this job. A 120 hour EMT class doesn't cut it. This is medicine, not first aid, not shuttle service to the hospital. Get some health science courses and take your paramedic course. In the 10 to 14 months that it runs you will get your field experience. If you can't put the book learning together with the practical application then your preceptor shouldn't be signing off on your ride-a-longs. You do not need three years to learn how to do proper BLS. What are you going to learn there that you won't on ride-a-longs?

I'm sorry to say but you'll be the guy who calls a 10-13 (help) because the guy you gave narcan to awoke and now what's to beat your a.. because you took his high away. Or you stood on the scene to long to do all your protocalls on this gun shot victim and the shooter returns.

We've already had the thread that mentioned slamming narcan, equals poor patient care. And if the shooter returns then the scene was not safe. To borrow from Dust, FAIL.

AND BUDDY PLEASE "ANGRY" THAT'S KINDA DISRESPECTING EMT'S

No disrespecting EMT's. I am one. I'm just believe that how we operate sucks. Most of the time we do things is because that's the way it's always been done. (I sure wish I could find the "monkey smack around" thread.) JMHO. By the way, I'm in NYC*EMS too.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Dragoon

[scott33]

i have alot of respect for medic's but some stay and play on scene too dam loooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.

May want to file that in the Paramedics save lives, EMTs save paramedics bin

A 120 hour EMT class doesn't cut it. This is medicine, not first aid, not shuttle service to the hospital.

Sadly, for many in EMS, it is a shuttle service to the hospital.

Nothing more.

...and as long as some of the more vocal members of the EMS community continue to neglect their education, we will all be tarred with the same brush (see link and cringe)

http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/training-...lieutenant-exam

Edited April 21, 2009 by scott33

[tskstorm]

NYCEMS

You're giving all NYC providers a horrible reputation...

What's your name ?

What Station/Battalion you from ?

First job was a shot in the South Bronx? How quaint, I know people who's first call was Sept. 11th. We all see our own share of things.

I greatly agree, you will see more BLS on your rotations then working BLS interfacility transport or volunteering and your preceptors will make you do BLS prior to your ALS interventions.

You my friend need to stop talking out of your ass. You obviously have a horrible career, you are a lifetime EMT who has had plenty of opportunity for advancement. Further, you put down ALS providers with a quick tongue, you should think twice because when you or your family is in need, it will be these "shitty" providers who spend "way too damn loooooonnnnnggg" coming to help you and your family.

[NYCEMS]

ok first off i said book smart goes hand in hand with experience. second no I'm not paying attention to proper spelling, I did't realize I had teachers reading my writings. next I have no problems with medics. I've had bad medics in NY as well as NJ. I've also had bad techs.

My point was the ones with more field experience as well as book smarts I found to 1) work better with others 2) have a better handle on the task at hand.

As far as my name or where I work that's non of your business. I entered into this forum to help others as well as my self. Initially I may have come out a little harsh but's that's because I got a little defensive at how some people were bashing others. I not here to say I'm a better tech than anyone. I'm here to voice my opinion and get some honest feedback with out being attacked. You think I'm stupid with my grammer and spelling. Go ahead, I'm not here out wit or spell you. I love my Job. I love working with people and making them at ease with the job. Sure we get alot of bs. So what every job has it's bs.

You want to be a doctor, more power to you. I like being a EMT and I don't consider my job useless.

Yeah I was also at 911 And the 1993 Bombing too.

Go ahead slam me all you want if it makes you feel important. "I corrected his spelling, I told him he was wrong." Wopy do!!

And tskstorm that family crack was uncalled for. What you think there's no shitty providers out there, als or bls. Get more experience then talk to me.

[tskstorm]

Get more experience then talk to me.

If you don't know who I am, how can you begin to tell me I need more experience?

And tskstorm that family crack was uncalled for. What you think there's no shitty providers out there, als or bls.

According to you there are "shitty" providers "... they have less then 6 months as a EMT and fell there season profesionnals because there medics now." really read your own posts.

The family crack was to wake you up.

Yeah I was also at 911 And the 1993 Bombing too.

who cares? That was the point of what I said, who cares what jobs you've done, it doesn't make a difference. As many times as you scoop and run or call for medics, it doesn't help you prepare to be the Medic, the medics on scene don't care who you are, they are there to treat the pt., not teach a new EMT how to become a future medic.

Go ahead slam me all you want if it makes you feel important. "I corrected his spelling, I told him he was wrong." Wopy do!! " second no I'm not paying attention to proper spelling,"

We're trying to open your eyes, to the future of this profession. If you can't be bothered to type a complete sentence, who could beleive you can be bothered to write an ACR correctly? You should take care in everything you do.

My point was the ones with more field experience as well as book smarts I found to 1) work better with others 2) have a better handle on the task at hand.

One, working well with others as a Medic is something you will learn in medic school, we practice team work day in and day out. Working as an EMT for a specified length of time does not build interpersonal skills. Secondly, a professional is the one who keeps a cool head when everyone else has lost it. There is something to say about experience here, the more you've seen the better you will handle it, however, the situation and management changes with your level of certification, what you're responsible for and what you have to think about changes, so only your experience at the level of certification you are working with will help you in such situation.

As far as my name or where I work that's non of your business.

I just wanted to know so that I don't get sick there, and to pray you aren't my BLS back.

I entered into this forum to help others as well as my self.

You should start by presenting yourself as a credible professional. Grammar and spelling go far on this board.

[scubanurse]

second no I'm not paying attention to proper spelling, I did't realize I had teachers reading my writings. [...]

You think I'm stupid with my grammer and spelling. Go ahead, I'm not here out wit or spell you. I love my Job.

[...]

Give reasonable attention to your grammar. Although we want to maintain a casual atmosphere here, this is ultimately a PROFESSIONAL forum where members of the public are free to read and draw conclusions about us as a profession. There is an automatic spell checker provided on this forum. Please use it. Do not post messages that appear as if they were taken from a 13 year old girl's AOL chat. "You" is spelled YOU, not "u." "Whatever" is spelled WHATEVER, not "w/e." And punctuation is extremely important to those trying to understand your statements. If you are too pressed for time to type legibly and using punctuation and capitalization, then please come back later when you have more time. AND NEVER POST IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS!

We're just asking that you pay attention to your grammar per the site rules you agreed to... is that so much to ask?? It is difficult for tired eyes and minds to comprehend your posts sometimes due to the poor spelling and grammar. I apologize if it seemed that I was attacking you, and maybe I did let my frustrations get the best of me... Welcome to the site and I hope you find it useful!