Affirmative Action Stupidity

[funkytomtom]

I think Herbie has some great points (and a killer closing line too). I've seen the same thing throughout my school career, it seems that many AAmericans simply do not value the educational opportunities they have been given. It seems much more culturally acceptable for them to be a sports player or a drug dealing gangster. Which gets to the heart of the issue like Herbie and Wendy were saying, why is this such a common cultural phenomenon? I suppose after reading all of this, I still can't get past the fact that we all have the same opportunities. Is it much harder for most AAmericans to do well in school and/or EMS than I? Maybe, certainly not for lack of intelligence, but possibly from underfunded schools and bad surroundings...but it seems the really smart thing to do in that situation would be to study that much harder and laugh your ass off when you end up on top. What are you getting out of complaining? Like Herbie said, we could probably all find reasons to paint ourselves as "victims" and let that define us, or we can answer a higher calling, take stock, shut up, and do whatever is required to get where we want to go.

[HERBIE1]

Herbie, you hit the nail on the head. Crotchity, respond to Herbie please. Let's address the root of the problem rather than identifying the symptoms (lack of black supervisors etc. And FYI: Almost all of my supervisors at my current position are Latino.)

Herbie... I challenge you this... WHY do you think these kids didn't value education? Do you think it is possible to teach people to value education when they are culturally reinforced to NOT value education due to its connotations (quit reading, you're acting WHITE) and due to the opinions of everyone surrounding them?

How do we teach people functional literacy when they're being shot at and have no money for rent and food? How do we teach them that literacy and education are not betraying one's race, but rather the tools to fight inequality?

Wendy

CO EMT-B

Wendy, part of my wife's job is recruitment and advising for a university. A huge issue she has is with parents of kids who come from the ghetto area schools. Many times, the parents want to know what "she" and the university are going to do for the kids. Just like our HIPAA laws, the university cannot discuss a student's records and grades with the parents unless the student gives the OK. In other words, the students are supposed to be responsible for themselves. The expectation of these parents is that these students should not just be advised, but be taken care of in every way imaginable. It's a different mentality. When the kids fail, it's somehow the university's fault that the kids do not do well.

She sees kids who were "top" in their class, but have 14 ACT's (out of a possible 35), so that tells you how well the rest of the class did. Many times all these kids had to do was show up for class- a huge accomplishment in many of these schools- and they would be given an A. No, not every kid from these areas are like this, but it's the rule vs the exception. The kids who ARE doing well from these schools and did get a decent education are succeeding usually because of some internal drive and motivation. For whatever reason, they don't buy into the thug/ghetto mentality, and do well despite all the negative influences.

"Acting white", or selling out IS a huge problem. Fact is, in ANY school, the athletes receive the bulk of the attention and adoration from fellow students- it's always been that way, but it is changing. As a result, kids always form their cliques- nerds, stoners, geeks, athletes, goths, etc. The "smart kids" still did their own thing, because of parental or other positive influences and an internal motivation. These days, however, it's almost becoming "cool" to be a geek or a nerd.

In the ghetto schools, this marginalization is taken to a whole new level. Because of the thug mentality and culture, in the ghetto schools, the trouble makers and athletes get all the attention and respect. To them, it's cool to be antisocial, antisocietal, and antieducation. For whatever reason, the negative influences are the ones they react to and follow. They simply see no value in education. They look around and see generations of friends and family who never finished high school, never had a job, but have a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, an IPOD, designer shoes, food in their stomach, FREE health care, and are able to raise a few kids- even without a 2 parent household. Is it a "comfortable" life- no, but they also don't need to worry about anything- their needs are taken care of, and apparently that is good enough for them. And the biggie- IF you are given all these things and they require NO effort on your part, where is the incentive to WORK for anything better? To me, that is the single biggest issue. It's hard to tell a kid they should work their arses off, endure the scorn of their peers and family, just so they can essentially get the same things as everyone else who didn't work for it.

Personal opinion- and I've been told I am a heartless SOB because of it:

As bleak of an existence as ghetto life may seem to be, it can't be that bad or why wouldn't more people take advantage of the many opportunities available EXCLUSIVELY to them to change their destiny? I think in most cases, "poverty" in this country is a misnomer. If someone has a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, kids running around, clothes on their back, a FREE education, FREE medical care, AND the kicker- they never have to lift a finger for it, how "poor" is that? Think 3rd world countries, living in a mud hut with no sanitation, no school, and no work means no food.

THAT is poverty.

[PGEMTP]

The reason we blacks score lower on standardized tests is because of a little thing called slavery -- you do remember that ? If you dont, let me also remind you that blacks were not allowed to attend white schools and universities until the 1960s. That puts us about 200 years behind whites in the US, and you have to remember that the first generations of black students did not have an educated family at home to assist them with their studies.

Then you also have to understand that many questions that you find easy on a standardized test, are not so easy for blacks. For instance:

Coffee cup is to saucer as napkin is to __________________ (table cloth, toaster, salad fork, or butter dish).

Sounds easy enough, but when you are a poor child (regardless of race), you may have never seen a coffee cup, saucer, table cloth, salad fork, or butter dish in your home.

I understand why whites do not like quotas, but at the same time, look around your department and see how many african american officers you have ?

If you go to Mcdonalds and they serve you the wrong hamburger, you dont go to Burger King for your refund. Whites held our race back for 100s of years in the US, now you have to pay for your wrongs. And yes I realize that it was not you personally who enslaved us, but it will take generations for us to catch up to whites.

After reading this and the other posts, I have to say, "Wholly Crap, Are you Serious". And the reasons are listed between your post and mine. If you are a firefighter you obviously have been through high school or at least a GED. Also if you don't know what a salad fork is, you probably don't know what a pike pole is either, therefore you shouldn't be a firefighter, let alone an officer.

Ask Obama how many table cloths or butter dishes in his home. Remember now, he was poor and black, too. And as far as paying for "MY" wrongs, none of my ancestors were rich enough to have slaves so I don't know what that would have to do with me. My parents, my grandparents, and great grandparents have been all too poor to have these things. I see many African Americans come out of a ghetto, house, apartment, and live educated smart lives that didn't need the NAACP to get them somewhere. Go to Atlanta (where I grew up) and see the predominately, affluent black communities. Don't get me wrong, there needed to be a lot of help for us to get to this point, but it's here. I want to hear about this "other stuff" that we are talking about here on the tests.

If I was a firefighter, I would want my officer to have a great memory. I mean, maybe that's just me. I'm going to have to go with the test. If race is supposed to be left out, then leave it out. It's now a two-way road. If you are not "caught up" with me it's not because of your color.

Edited May 13, 2009 by PGEMTP

[ERDoc]

As a white boy who grew up in middle class NY, I really need to know how much guilt I am supposed to have. Let's assume for a moment that blacks are owed for the years of salvery. How do we decide who is responsible and to what degree? Should any and all white people be held accountable? My ancestors came to the US from northern Europe in the beginning of the 20th century (after slavery was abolished). Am I responsible for what happened to blacks before my ancestors arrived in the country? All of my ancestors were poor and could not afford slaves nor were they in a position to create laws leading to segregation. Am I still responsible? I have German blood in my background (though very little). Am I responsible for the holocaust? I am beginning to feel a large amount of guilt here. Please, someone inform me how much guilt I truly deserve. I also have some Cherokee blood (more than German). Does this mean that I am owed something? If so, who do I see about getting my piece of the pie?

[spenac]

I also have some Cherokee blood (more than German). Does this mean that I am owed something? If so, who do I see about getting my piece of the pie?

Yes, where do we go for that check? I feel extremely oppressed because of how the white man abused my ancestors. Their spirits will not rest until I am paid.

Edited May 13, 2009 by spenac

[Lone Star]

Judging from another thread, only blacks are allowed to use the term 'African American' these days.

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php?showtopic=15165

Even the ACLU won't get involved in this one. Is it because this African American is actually white, and therefore doesn't deserve the same 'protections' that black America does? I mean when someone who was acutally BORN AND RAISED in Africa can't identify himself as an 'African American' because he's WHITE...now who's being 'oppressed'?

Maybe we should look into some special 'set asides' just for him?

[WolfmanHarris]

Maybe it's because the ACLU is too busy giving themselves a self-congratulatory circle jerk over how they've been able to lord over and reshape small communities to their agenda (which is incredibly selective of the civil liberties they support) who are unable to defend themselves against their large legal budgets, while still trying to find relevance in the face of increasingly petty fights?! Or perhaps the medical school is right, and this 100% correct description is horribly offensive. I mean every minority group has been able to change their self-identifying language at will for years, why shouldn't they also exclude others from the same privilege?

Shit. Now I feel guilty.