Affirmative Action Stupidity

[RatPack]

Ill preface by stating I am a whit male.

Maybe the white boys had the answers.

I think that it is time for a workforce to reflect its population. Should 15 whiteys show up in fire trucks, ambulances and police cars when 75% of the population is black or Hispanic? If they cant pass the tests thats one thing, if someone doesn't want them to that another issue and completely possible.

Listen I dont like the race card anymore then anyone else, to state it doesn't exist is sticking your head in the sand. We have come along way, we haven't come all the way.

[ERDoc]

Ill preface by stating I am a whit male.

Maybe the white boys had the answers.

I think that it is time for a workforce to reflect its population. Should 15 whiteys show up in fire trucks, ambulances and police cars when 75% of the population is black or Hispanic? If they cant pass the tests thats one thing, if someone doesn't want them to that another issue and completely possible.

Listen I dont like the race card anymore then anyone else, to state it doesn't exist is sticking your head in the sand. We have come along way, we haven't come all the way.

You are right, most of the country hasn't come all of the way. There is still no excuse for people not to be able to succeed.

Crotchity, with this much genetic variation, you will have to find a new reason other than 300 years of evolution, despite the fact that evolution does not occur on such a short time scale.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_...EMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Dustdevil]

What you describe is called operant conditioning which you might be able to argue is a form of education. It is NOT evolution. Evolution is due to genetic changes, not behavioral changes.

Psychology 101 FTW

[Lone Star]

[emtannie]

Find you a quiet place: Imagine a man in his 30s. He is forced to live in a dirt floor shack with no water or airconditioning. He is not allowed to be educated, he is beaten daily, he is not allowed to go to church, his wife and teenage daughter get raped by their owners on a regular basis, his kids are split up and sold to the highest bidder, he works a 14 hour day working crops in ubearable heat, he is a prisoner every day of his life.

scroll down

now imagine that he is a WHITE man !

"Oh and by the way Crotchity, I like your "white" avatar "

Why dont you go ahead with the next line: The future is looking bright because there are no blacks on the jetsons. But I guess you have not noticed that is wasnt until after the Cosby show, that blacks were allowed to have any significant roles on television, unless they needed someone to play a criminal.

Yes snoopy is white, the main character in 99% of all media is white; but there isnt any racism there !

Crotchity,

That very scenario was EXACTLY what happened to my family in Russia, and not 300 years ago, but less than 100 years ago, which is why some members fled to Canada in 1926 - what is your point? My family is considered "white" in your eyes.

I think you should also google "Chinese Railroad workers in America" and read some of the history there. I am not sure why you feel that "blacks" are the only people in the world who have ever been persecuted.

I find the comment "99% of all media is white" quite interesting. Do you have a statistic to back that up? Without even trying, I can think of many "black" movie and TV stars (Will Smith, Samuel L Jackson, Tyra Banks, Denzel Washington, Cuba Gooding Jr, Lawrence Fishburn, Morgan Freeman, just off the top of my head....).... many "black" news reporters... so if you have a statistic for that, I would like to read the study on that. Could you please post the reference for that? Instead of complaining about how there were no black roles, maybe you should be looking at how far "blacks" have come in the media in the last few decades.

Many posts in this thread have shown factual historical evidence that many other races and cultures had, and still have slavery today. You have chosen to completely ignore those posts in favor of a "my ancestors were treated poorly and now I want payback" mentality.

I encourage you to research these other countries, races, and cultures, and hopefully realize that your ancestors were not the only people in the world who suffered hardship at the hands of others.

I still don't understand this "ethnocentric testing" theory. If that was truly the case, that tests are skewed to the "white" majority, why do people of Chinese and Japanese descent do well on them? Why do people from Sri Lanka, Thailand, Brazil, and other countries do well on those exams? I still haven't quite figured out what "white" is either. Is "white" Irish? English? German? Dutch? Russian? Polish? Czech? I look at those and see different ethnic backgrounds.... so why is "ethnocentric testing" a valid complaint?

[HERBIE1]

You have no problem of accusing me of playing the race card, why dont some of you play the "truth" card ? Just answer honestly:

1. We have " __________" number of african americans at my company.

2. We have "__________" of white employees at my company.

3. We have "__________" number of african american supervisors at my company.

4. I have dated _____________ number of african americans during my lifetime.

OK- I'll play:

These are guesses since we have nearly 6K employees

1)- approx 30%

2) approx 40%- rest Hispanic, Asian, NAtive American, etc

3) approx 30%

4) 1- Bi-racial

LIke in the story, every entrance exam and promotional exam is challenged herebecause not enough minorities score well enough. Even with quotas and tests designed by an expert in making race neutral exams- there is never enough minority representation. So- either racism is responsible, or there is something else going on.

SO what does this prove? NOTHING. What is the racial makeup of your area? Nationwide, only about 13% of our population is black, which means there are large areas with NO minorities. That's just the way the numbers work out- sorry. Problem is, we have overarching, all encompassing things like affirmative action, quotas, and other set asides that apply across the board- regardless of the demographics in your area.

A few years ago, we had a small manufacturing company here with 30-40 employees- which was 100% minority- all Hispanic. A black man wanted a job there, they had no openings, but he filed a suit saying the company discriminated against him. The courts agreed, told the owner he must comply and hire x number of blacks, but could not get enough applicants to fill out the quota. He closed his doors. So now instead of having 40 minorities in his business, he was told he didn't have the right "type" of minorities and everyone was out of a job.

Is this the type of "equity" you are looking for?

The beauty of the "slavery is responsible for the ills in the black community" idea is that it will never end. You cannot change the past- and even INTENTIONALLY using reverse discrimination to address these past wrongs, it's not enough to "even the score". Institutional racism can no longer be a valid excuse when the system provides things like set asides, affirmative action, and race neutral exams to combat this problem. There are even civil and financial penalties for NOT complying with these laws. There are activist groups, community groups, state, local, and federal organizations to monitor real and perceived breaches to these laws. So now what? What more should we do as a nation?

[crotchitymedic1986]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30934

http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldkno...008-naacp-says/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2027161.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/ne...nority-tv_x.htm

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,259579~3~6...ttoized,00.html

added this one for the troll factor

http://www.cracked.com/article_15677_9-mos...characters.html

Here is a racist that supports your view

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/sep/2...oadcasting.race

[WolfmanHarris]

You posted the Onion as a reference?! Seriously?! Okay, maybe scholarly and peer reviewed is asking too much, but at least a real newspaper, not a satire. Funniest shit of the entire thread right there.

[emtannie]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30934

http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldkno...008-naacp-says/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2027161.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/ne...nority-tv_x.htm

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,259579~3~6...ttoized,00.html

added this one for the troll factor

http://www.cracked.com/article_15677_9-mos...characters.html

Here is a racist that supports your view

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/sep/2...oadcasting.race

First site:

- the Onion? Are you kidding me? That is like reading the Weekly World News….

- The study quoted is not cited, with no link, and no source

- I googled “Center for Media and Social Research” and didn’t get a direct hit – you would think that if this was a reputable research institute, it would hit the first page of google

Second Site:

- NAACP says….

- Again, no sources, no studies, no facts cited

Third Site:

- Site is dated June 2002

- quotes a UCLA study, but no link to the study to review the criteria or details

- again, no direct citation

Fourth Site:

- posted in December, 2004

- article is based on Hispanic population, not black

- again, no direct link to study

Fifth Site:

- posted in 2002

- again, no link to the UCLA study

The “troll” site you posted was just that, not based on common sense. You are basing your argument on cartoons? That would be as big a stretch as saying that all four-legged creatures as are dumb as Wiley Coyote.

Be very careful who you point fingers at:

Your comment “Here is a racist that supports your view

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/sep/2...adcasting.race”

Please show me where I stated “There are too many blacks on TV.”

As well, consider the validity of your sources. This article was a 2003 article; again, outdated, and again, no study linked to the article to prove validity.

I want to be able to read the actual study; I want to see the actual criteria.

Had you presented this as a term paper, you would have received a 0 as you have not presented any factual information, no reference sources, and no current studies.

I find it incredibly interesting that although others have presented historical information proving that other ethnicities, races, and cultures have experienced the same, and worse atrocities as blacks, and in the much more recent past than American slavery, you refuse to acknowledge that fact.

I still have not seen any relevant discussion in your posts regarding other minority ethnic populations who also have historically been slaves or impoverished in America (again, refer to Chinese railroad workers) and have been successful, and your explanation for that.

Until you present actual facts, your information is opinion only; I have seen that you do not value other’s opinions – why do you expect me to value yours?

[mobey]

The reason we blacks score lower on standardized tests is because of a little thing called slavery

Annie: Perhaps we need to be sensitive to the fact that crotchity may be incapable of INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED debate (see above quote).

His words.... not mine.