Affirmative Action Stupidity

[tniuqs]

WELL THEN!

I as a proud member of NAAEAS and WMCJ demand that a equal percentage of White Basketball Players be appointed to the NBA ... well thats using the exact same methodology as FF promotions is it not ?

BTW Thats the National Association for the Advancement of Euro-Americans in Sport or White Men Can't Jump ... good grief bat man.

Edited May 3, 2009 by tniuqs

[Dustdevil]

Please show me where I stated “There are too many blacks on TV.”

I'll say it. There are too many blacks on TV.

Can we trade some of them for more Hispanic women?

[Lone Star]

Be very careful who you point fingers at:

Your comment “Here is a racist that supports your view

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/sep/2...adcasting.race”

As well, consider the validity of your sources. This article was a 2003 article; again, outdated, and again, no study linked to the article to prove validity.

I want to be able to read the actual study; I want to see the actual criteria.

Had you presented this as a term paper, you would have received a 0 as you have not presented any factual information, no reference sources, and no current studies.

I find it incredibly interesting that although others have presented historical information proving that other ethnicities, races, and cultures have experienced the same, and worse atrocities as blacks, and in the much more recent past than American slavery, you refuse to acknowledge that fact.

I still have not seen any relevant discussion in your posts regarding other minority ethnic populations who also have historically been slaves or impoverished in America (again, refer to Chinese railroad workers) and have been successful, and your explanation for that.

Until you present actual facts, your information is opinion only; I have seen that you do not value other’s opinions – why do you expect me to value yours?

Annie,

When you have nothing more than 11 pages of rhetoric, with no valid facts to support your position; no one will take your arguement as anything other than simple rhetoric and opinion.

At the risk of being branded 'politically incorrect', it is my contention that if you don't like your current situation, then it is your OBLIGATION to expend the effort to change it! It's time you get off your dead ass and do SOMETHING to change things, rather than sit there with your hand out expecting the whole world to give you 'payback' even if they had NOTHING to do with the injustices experienced by your ancestors.

While the statement, "Whitey tryin to keep us down.", may have been correct 50 years ago, it doesn't apply to todays cultural environment.

Having gone to a predominantly black high school (roughly 85-95% black), most of the kids in my graduating class are either: dead, incarcerated or so burned out on drugs, they're lucky to remember their names. I also attend a predominantly black college, and have noticed that most of the courses being taken by the black students are mechanics, cosmetology, and other 'non-technical courses' of study. Hell, in My EMT-B/EMT-I course, there are only 3 blacks out of 21 students.

Should I feel 'guilty' because I'm actually trying to do something to change my 'lot in life'? I REFUSE to feel 'guilty' about it! At least I'm trying to do something to improve my life and my education! Nowhere in my posts have I whined and cried about discrimination and 'being held down' because there is no 'pissed off middle aged potbellied white guy' fund to put me through college or even represent me!

[crotchitymedic1986]

White people are hilarious. You only get upset when someone pees on your part of suburbia. The link I provided from the UK is typical of the white reaction. The person was upset that there were so many blacks on TV in the UK, when at best they only make up 9% of the population, so tv is not reflective of his population. Funny, he didnt have any concerns when tv was 100% white, and not reflective of the UKs population.

SO a handful of white firefighters didnt get their 5% raise and promotion, big deal. African Americans have over 20% unemployment and are still 60% of the prison population due to the racist policies that exist in the US.

(P.S. let me guess the next post' "crotchity show me a scientifc study that proves racism exists in american policy". Fine, google prison sentences for crack cocaine possession (black crime) versus powdered cocaine possession (white crime). I will let you make a value judgement as to which crime is worse - the 17 year old black kid in the hood with 3 crack rocks, versus the white millionaire in Miami that just flew in a kilo of cocaine. Google white versus black DUI arrest (or any traffic arrest, as nubian americans are always guilty of DWB --driving while black). Still dont think there is racism in EMS -- we just ended the month of April; go back and look at your call volume, and see what % of refusals were whites versus blacks, and compare that with the total call volume. You guys are all about scientific studies, lets see if you will "study" your own organization and report the truth)

Edited May 3, 2009 by crotchitymedic1986

[WolfmanHarris]

Umm... didn't you use a fake newspaper (as in a farce and well known one at that), to back up your arguments. I think the onus is on you to prove the cogence of your arguments, (in other words, quoting the newspaper equivalent of SNL's "Weekend Update" destroys the credibility of your arguments) especially when their scope is so sweeping and has no room for understanding of the opposing side. Unless I've missed something the two sides of the argument have so far broken down like this

1) The current policy of affirmative action is horribly flawed and doesn't address the whole scope of the issue.

2) Reparations need to be paid for slavery.

The thing I think you're missing here Crotch, or refusing to address, is that your stance is to identify the symptoms of a problem (incarceration rates, representation in politics and media, etc) but not the nature of the problem and how to address it. If you look back to the beginning of the thread you might find that this discussion didn't start and hasn't tried to be a "racism doesn't exist" argument, but instead a "how we're dealing with a history of racism isn't working" argument. Maybe this would be more productive if you attempted to engage in that discussion and not in the "who's ethnic/religious/whatever group has had it worse." I think if we can't have that discussion in a mature, reasoned fashion than we might as well close the thread as it's the intellectual equivalent of "oh ya?!"

Yes I am picking on you specifically, because as I went back and reread the thread, it seemed to me that you were the one who took us in this direction and have continued to keep it on this track and I believe only your cooperation can turn this into a productive discussion.

Kind regards,

- Matt

[CBEMT]

African Americans have over 20% unemployment and are still 60% of the prison population due to the racist policies that exist in the US.

(P.S. let me guess the next post' "crotchity show me a scientifc study that proves racism exists in american policy". Fine, google prison sentences for crack cocaine possession (black crime) versus powdered cocaine possession (white crime). I will let you make a value judgement as to which crime is worse - the 17 year old black kid in the hood with 3 crack rocks, versus the white millionaire in Miami that just flew in a kilo of cocaine. Google white versus black DUI arrest (or any traffic arrest, as nubian americans are always guilty of DWB --driving while black).

None of which has anything to do with the study habits of firefighters preparing for the New Haven FD promotional exam.

FAIL.

Edited May 4, 2009 by CBEMT

[crotchitymedic1986]

NO cbemt it is you that fail for keeping your head in the sand, and insisting that since slavery ended some 140 + years ago, that AAmericans have no excuse for not measuring up to whites. Once again, while white kids have been in an educational system since the 1700s in the US, AA's were not allowed to attend school until the 1950's-60's, and had to risk their life to do so. To continue to insist that everything is now equal, even though instances of discrimination are highlighted in the media on a daily basis (to this day) should be evidence enough that we are still not equal in opportunities.

Basically, this is what you are saying: A man rapes a woman for two weeks straight, then feels guilty about it, so to make up for it he replaces the panties he ripped off of her with a new pair, and then wonders why she can't get over it.

We never got our 40 acres and a mule, we didnt get education for another 100 years after we were "freed" but left unemployed, and we still to this day do not have equal footing in the job market. But hey, a bunch of whites voted for a black guy, so all is well.

[ERDoc]

NO cbemt it is you that fail for keeping your head in the sand, and insisting that since slavery ended some 140 + years ago, that AAmericans have no excuse for not measuring up to whites. Once again, while white kids have been in an educational system since the 1700s in the US, AA's were not allowed to attend school until the 1950's-60's, and had to risk their life to do so. To continue to insist that everything is now equal, even though instances of discrimination are highlighted in the media on a daily basis (to this day) should be evidence enough that we are still not equal in opportunities.

Basically, this is what you are saying: A man rapes a woman for two weeks straight, then feels guilty about it, so to make up for it he replaces the panties he ripped off of her with a new pair, and then wonders why she can't get over it.

We never got our 40 acres and a mule, we didnt get education for another 100 years after we were "freed" but left unemployed, and we still to this day do not have equal footing in the job market. But hey, a bunch of whites voted for a black guy, so all is well.

Should that man's (the rapist) great great grandson be held responsible when he had absolutely nothing to do with it?

Please stop saying "we". You were never a slave, you were not left unemployed. I was not given 40 acres and a mule either. I worked hard for what I have and you have had the same opportunities to do the same. If anything you would be eligible for more as I did not qualify for any race/ethnicity based scholarships nor did I qualify for student grants. I paid my way by working full time and taking out student loans which I will be paying off until I am 60.

Edited May 4, 2009 by ERDoc

[HERBIE1]

OK, let's play your game, crochity. Slavery and racism are the causes of the problems in the black community. To address that, we have had affirmative action, set asides, and quotas since the 60's. Since then, it is AGAINST the law to discriminate based on race, ethnicity, or gender. Does it still happen- yep. Despite all that, we still have biases based on family name, political clout, nepotism, wealth, and gawd knows what other reasons, but we have NO real legal recourse to address those things. Should we pass laws, establish government agencies, push for quotas, set asides, and watchdog groups that give average, everyday Joe's an extra hand? We are fallible humans who don't always play fair. Get over it.

So- after all these legal and social protections, what is the result? To me, other than making slavery and discrimination illegal, in many ways, things have only gotten worse. Black males have the highest incarceration rates of any group in this country. Anywhere from 2/3's to 3/4 of all kids born in the black community are born to single mothers who are heads of their household. Literacy rates, graduation rates, poverty have only gotten worse. Drugs, violence, unemployment- all skyrocketing in recent generations. Racism?

How about NOT taking advantage of the opportunities when they are presented? Does someone force a kid to NOT stay in school and get an education? By whom? Are they FORCED to have a baby at 15 and possibly be dependent on society for their entire lives? By whom?

So what is the answer? Revenge? These ideas to address past wrongs have completely failed, or I suggest they are not even addressing the problem or actually creating the opposite of their designed effect.

if you are only looking for paybacks, as you seem to be indicating by your posts, then good luck. There are plenty of people with guilty consciences and an entire political party to help you out. Based on the worsening problems in this community, paybacks won't change a damn thing, but maybe that's all you are looking for- not real solutions.

To think that invalidating a test because you don't like the results is pure BS. The tested material is a known quantity- it's not a secret. Everyone who takes that test knows what they will be held responsible for. EVERYONE. Either you know the material or you do not.

Fireground tactics are NOT something that can be racially skewed. I'm thinking that the blacks who took this test assumed that as in most instances, they would be given special dispensation simply because of their skin color and they simply didn't prepare adequately. When the scores were posted and there was NOT a special scoring procedure(banding, race norming, quotas, set asides, etc) they were judged soley on their performance and they did not measure up. In a race neutral test, the only other alternative is that blacks are not capable of doing as well as whites- you can't be suggesting that, can you? Too bad- take the test again, only this time actually crack the books and study for it LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

In the end, it seems you are all about revenge for something you personally have never experienced, from people who are not responsible for doing it. Good luck with that it- seems to be working out "well" so far.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Fair statements herbie, but let met try to bring this whole discussion home:

Let's take your average EMT or Paramedic class anywhere in the US. The tests for the course and for National Registry are written by educated people, and I assume that they do not intend to be biased towards any group. Yet, many times in the past, white students who had an A-B average in school, have failed the National Registry test, and will continue to do so. I am sure you are aware of people who do not "take written tests" very well, even though they can cite the answer to the question when asked verbally. So if you have a class of 20 students, and they were all taught the same class, by the same instructor, using the same materials, why do you not get the same grade for all members of the class ? Obvioulsy those who scored poorly in class did not study as hard as the A students, so you would anticipate that they would have a lower grade, but how do you get such a wide disparity among those A-B students (some pass first time, some take 3-4 times to pass). Are they all lazy and stupid ? They all had the same opportunity ?

So when white people fail the National Registry it's because they dont take test well. When black people fail a promotional exam (probably not written by a scholar, but by a white person who had his parent's economic prosperity to support them through college (even if the student paid the loans) who works in the department), it is because they are lazy and didnt study hard enough ?

Edited May 4, 2009 by crotchitymedic1986