Affirmative Action Stupidity

[tniuqs]

If you need a race crutch to use look north my friends. We give the "Native Americans" (First nations) all the freedoms they deserve as long as they stay in thier reserve (read: cheaply built houses in our wasteland). If you leave the reserveland and try to start a career we force our culture and governing upon them.

Natives are "home".

Disagee mobey:

Firstly I was born here this makes this MY "HOME" too ... a lame excuse and the vast majority of first nations are of mixed blood the DIA Card is a scam. I know of many that take the step off the reserve and make it, but very few because its too easy to stay and no one starves on a reserve.

I certainly wish with my children had the same and equal access to funding for education alone let alone free health care, free education and all the government programs in every area of "Canadian Culture" so when does the native overfunding end too ...... just when is the land we paid for 'paid in full" When will all Taxpaying Canadians call: enough is enough ?

btw the First Pations Peoples are living in House's on reserves built by Canadian taxpayers if they were true to their "CULTURE" they would be living in Tee Pees and subsistance living conditions and off the land, not chips and pop .. but I guess you can have your Cake and Eat it too previso being, if you are from a certain privleged ansestory.

ps ... If I was hungry I could not:

Hunt out of season or fish out of season this is a joke with my native friends, they live in Homes around me and are in no way subsistance survivors, have fleets of Trawlers not the War Canoe and nets made out of woven willow branches ... double standard, use the modern technology follow the rules like the rest of the world.

I can not demand a school built by the federal government, Then have the right to NOT send my children to school.

I can not claim "harassment" by an employer based on human rights (in fact I have had a complaint was disgarded) because I was not female, visable minority or different sexual preferance or non christian, I was told that Human Rights comission was not mandated to secure MY Rights ... as a WASP.

Why if everything is supposed to be equal opportunity does the Canadian Constitution have a "longer list of rights " for First Nations ?

A double standard excists ... Quite Clearly.

Quoting Gwynne Dyer:

When one has a difference in any country in rights.

This will eventually lead to civil unrest.

[HERBIE1]

Back to the article, and a different take on this:

Sources of bias included that the written section measured memorization rather than actual skills needed for the jobs; giving too much weight to the written section; and lack of testing for leadership in emergency conditions, according to a brief filed by officers of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology.

So now the reasons for the supposed bias is because too much emphasis is on the written portion of the exam. Ahem- how on earth do you test knowledge of fireground tactics, department rules and regulations, and knowledge WITHOUT a written test? The test was made race neutral under federal guidelines.

OK, since the 60's laws have been in place that prohibit discrimination in voting, hiring, and damn near everything. We have entire government agencies whose sole purpose is to monitor these things, investigate claims of bias, and assign penalties for such. We have watchdog/neighborhood/civil rights groups that jump at any real or perceived instance of bias. Since this time, man has gone to the moon and back multiple times, we have explored our entire solar system and beyond, computers have gone from being the size of a warehouse to fitting in the palm of your hand. We have cars that can parallel park on their own and even brake on their own before you rear end someone.

Are we honestly supposed to think that we still need to have punitive rules to address something that current laws prohibit? Is racism STILL the reason why there is such a disparity in educational performance? Do we still need to punish people today for laws on the books, enacted by our ancestors who have been dead for generations? If this is only about punishment/retribution/reparations/paybacks(since for a half century, you cannot legally discriminate) when will the punishment be served? Hell, we have convicted murderers who get out of jail in 10 years- when will justice be served?

It's clear these laws do not address the problem or the disparity would no longer exist, so when will people start asking the tough questions- like what is the REAL reason for the problem?

Could it be that these set asides and entitlements are now actually doing more harm than good? (Don't worry, we know you can't compete on a level playing field so we'll dumb down a test/ have set asides/ give you a job or promotion, etc solely based on the color of your skin or your heritage) If someone has been told for generations that they CANNOT compete, that their failures, problems, and social problems are NOT their fault, wouldn't the logical response for many be to eventually accept that and agree with it?

[Lone Star]

The reason we blacks score lower on standardized tests is because of a little thing called slavery -- you do remember that ? If you dont, let me also remind you that blacks were not allowed to attend white schools and universities until the 1960s. That puts us about 200 years behind whites in the US, and you have to remember that the first generations of black students did not have an educated family at home to assist them with their studies.

Then you also have to understand that many questions that you find easy on a standardized test, are not so easy for blacks. For instance:

Coffee cup is to saucer as napkin is to __________________ (table cloth, toaster, salad fork, or butter dish).

Sounds easy enough, but when you are a poor child (regardless of race), you may have never seen a coffee cup, saucer, table cloth, salad fork, or butter dish in your home.

I understand why whites do not like quotas, but at the same time, look around your department and see how many african american officers you have ?

If you go to Mcdonalds and they serve you the wrong hamburger, you dont go to Burger King for your refund. Whites held our race back for 100s of years in the US, now you have to pay for your wrongs. And yes I realize that it was not you personally who enslaved us, but it will take generations for us to catch up to whites.

Can't do well on standardized testing because of slavery? How much of this bullshit do you REALLY expect us to swallow?

Face it, minorities have had the same educational opportunities that whites have. What is done with that opportunity decides whether you succeed or fail!

I get so damn sick and tired of people claiming 'entitlement' because of their skin color! In this country, if you want to accomplish something, you MUST 'work for it'.

The days of the 'tokens' are over! If you want to get ahead, then work hard for it like everybody else!

Why is it that the only race that can be 'racist' are the whites? If white folks had the same organizations, groups and charities that the 'minorities' have, the whole country would be up in arms!

And for the record, MY 'people' never owned slaves! My great grandfather came from Germany somewhere around 1920, became a naturalized citizen, joined the U.S. Army and was sent back to fight the Germans.

[crotchitymedic1986]

I tell you what -- you enslave the white race for the next 300 years, do not let them learn to read or write, dont let them attend normal high school and college --- then let them go to school for 40 years, and we will see how smart the second or third generation of whites is.

You deserve every promotion you lost --- or atleast your grandparents do.

Edited April 24, 2009 by crotchitymedic1986

[FireMedic65]

why does everyone have to be so racist? grow up already!

[Dustdevil]

You deserve every promotion you lost --- or atleast your grandparents do.

My Grandparents came to America from Africa LONG after yours did. So how, exactly, are they responsible for your dilemma?

[celticcare]

Crotchity, I am plainly disgusted that you are promoting this stuff and using a race card to get your way. You are a poster in these forums who pushes for education and that everyone should strive for their own knowledge and skills etc, and yet you are the first one to cry "I'm black and was a slave for hundreds of years I can't read or write massa".

There were some well looked after slaves that their white "owners" actually treated them as equals and tuaght them to read and write, so that whole excuse of "every black slave couldnt read or write" is out the window, some white owners put their "slaves" to school and university. Every human being is born with the same size brain, its down to whether some want to use it and get out of the slum that they are in.

As I said in my previous post, everyone has a story in their family tree of poverty or maltreatment, yet all of us here have some form of education under us and want to suceed in advancement of prehospital emergency care. I cannot actually look at any of your posts the same any more because you have now contraindicated yourself in that the pushing for higher education yet you claim special treatment because of your skin colour or your race's overall history.

It is the 21st century, and as Lone said, if we had standards for white people only, there would be up and arms war because we are wanting the same rights for our kids as you want for yours. How about EQUALITY regardless of sex, race, colour, creed, reliegion and sexual orientation?

Dust please dont hate all firefigthers, alot of places worldwide don't have the same policies, its one fire department.

[Kiwiology]

Affirmative action (yes we have it here in New Zealand too) is simply reverse racisim.

Strikes me as a way for white, middle class, able bodied, well educated males who feel bad about themselves for looking down on minorities to try and find a way to rock up to the Pearly Gates and go "yo St Peter, dude, look what we did!".

I whole heartedly support equal opportunities for all people be they white, black, brown, orange, poor, rich, middle class, disabled or not, college graduate or high school dropout, gangbanger from the ghetto or rich kid from the suburbs or whatever but this shit is crazy.

While not disagreeing that maybe we didn't do so good on that slavery thing (or in the case of the British settlers in New Zealand; getting the Maoris to sign over the country and trying to breed them out of existance) but this was hundred of years ago ... get over it. You can't tell me that any person be they black, white, blue, rich, poor, disabled or not, educated or thick as pigshit who spent high school out back smoking and faunicating behind the sports equipment shed does not have the same opportunies to make something of themselves as any other person.

Pull your heads out your arses and realise that by playing the race card you are ignorant; you are expecting us to feel bad for stuff done generations ago and give you something baed upon that. It's not "righting a wrong" or anything; it's pure manipulation that I see at work EVERY DAY; every day I see people who simply use their skin colour to try and manipulate the system into getting what they want. Makes me puke.

Tell you what, today, in 2009, you go walk your ass across the Edmund Pettus Bridge and I tell you what, if a bunch of Alabama State Police come beat you up then I'll take it all back.

Ben

Edited April 25, 2009 by kiwimedic

[emtannie]

So, I did a little googling, and visited a few sites concerning the history of slavery in the USA.

According to several sites (which I can send you if you wish – just send me a pm) the first slaves arrived in about 1619. Slavery was abolished in 1774, with further laws enacted in the years following, including the 1819 law equating holding a slave punishable by death.

There were uprisings on both sides, over the next years… So, for about 10 generations, there was slavery in the USA.

In 1866, the 14th amendment to the American constitution defined anyone born in the US a US citizen, with all rights and freedoms associated.

So… In the last 6 generations, NO “African American” has been a slave. How many more generations is it going to take for that portion of the population to quit riding that pony? Europe has a long history of serfdom and slavery, up until WWII. I don’t see people of English, Irish, French, German, Russian, Polish, or other countries using race as an excuse for non-performance (I could write a dissertation on the treatment of Irish, or the Chinese when the railroads were being built, but that would sidetrack this thread).

Why are we seeing immigrants from war-torn countries, where they have had NO opportunity for education, come to North America and prosper, when they knew nothing about education, work, having food or a home before that time, who saw family members blown up, shot and disfigured, and people who were born and raised in the United States still cry the “something happened to my ancestors” excuse?

I don’t buy the “If someone has been told for generations that they CANNOT compete, that their failures, problems, and social problems are NOT their fault, wouldn't the logical response for many be to eventually accept that and agree with it?” It isn’t the problem of “whites” but it is a self-fulfilling prophesy of the “African American” population. THEY tell themselves that they are discriminated against. THEY tell themselves that they won’t be able to succeed. It isn’t the rest of the world telling them that – they are doing that to themselves. It is time for that population to take a good look at what they are telling their own children, and stop being a self-fulfilling prophesy. It isn’t white people telling black people that they cannot compete – it is the black population telling themselves that. How many generations have we had the “affirmative action” policies to assist with these populations getting ahead, and they still use the same excuse?

I still don’t see the reasoning in expecting less of a person because of something that happened over 150 years ago...

[Just Plain Ruff]

Annie, well put but the racism card or slavery card is pulled out any time that that person does not have anything useful to bring to the fore.

Also, like I said earlier, anytime the racism card is used, any useful dialogue is no longer possible.