EMT starts association in Indiana

[mobey]

IAFF is great for me current situation, but I do understand that is not the case for the rest of ems.

IAFF is a VERY powerful union. But EMS is not thier focus. round here, we usually get the short straw under the IAFF contracts.

Anyway... this thread was about Associations I believe?

[PGEMTP]

WOW Dust,

10 weeks?!? That is crazy. I couldn't imagine gaining the knowledge needed to be able to identify conditions in 10 months let alone 10 weeks! My Medic class was 15 months. No core classes required. So THIS is the problem of why we cannot be professionalized. Look at our "standards". Keep looking. Wait, they have to be around here somewhere? Anyone? Anyone? Hmmm.. Sucks for us. We fix our education first and I feel the rest will fall into place. To do that we need organization. The ones out there may not be perfect, but it's all I have. I have never heard of OZ until I heard it in another forum. I guess it's worldwide. I'll keep looking for organization and advocacy. I'm happy about the new EMS educational standards, I just wish states would jump on board with the NR. Even though I think it's a joke, again, it's all we have as far as standard certification. States like Florida and Tx I guess are holding us back, same in PA. Though PA requires you to get NR initially, you don't have to keep it up. Any ideas? My point in the beginning was that maybe the Indiana Association is going to be a flop, but at least someone is trying, and that can't be said for most of us.

SirDuke,

Where from GA are you from? I actually have a test and interview there in June. I'm originally from Roswell.

[Diazepam618]

IAFF is a VERY powerful union. But EMS is not thier focus. round here, we usually get the short straw under the IAFF contracts.

Anyway... this thread was about Associations I believe?

Yeah your right, but we need more organizatins like we need more swine flu. We all ready have that joke of the NRemt do really need anything more. If anything we as ems need to get rid of the vollies and start making a standart at the field level first, even if it's just a cultral standard.

[tniuqs]

Roger that. I'm not discounting the value of unionisation. And I have no idea what union dues cost. The only unionised job I ever worked, I refused to join the union. And I am lucky enough to live in a free state, where we are not required to join. We have the freedom to associate or not associate with whomever we please without fear of losing our job. I'm just trying to keep the discussion of unions and professional associations separated, because they are not even remotely the same thing.

The definition of Polarization:

UNION=BAD ?

ASSOCIATION=GOOD ?

WTF ??

Dust you took the union wage or did you take a cut in pay ? Heck here the fees are garnished anyway so you would chose not to have an opinion ? Umm that would be just slightly out of character.

So Question: Does the name or title of the organization representing Paramedicine really matter ?

Or do the bylaws that mandate to the elected leaders (of whatever one wishes to call an organization) as these are the real tools to keep things on the tracks and in accomplishing any goal. Hey call it a Constitution if you wish, you Americans love that deal and will fight to the death over it.

ps Dust I know your armed but I am in hiding ... LOL>

Just an an example but writing a nasty letter to government / employeer whatever, JUST DON'T CUT the MOOSE TURD ! One has to have the entire membership / voters with some serious clout and serious options / leverage to advocate any change or improvement in any area, otherwise your just spinning your wheels in the snow and the only thing you will receive is lip service ONLY or 15 seconds of local news coverage.

I am lucky enough to live in a free state, where we are not required to join.

In theory we TOO live in the supposedly free state but don't believe that its the truth PLEASE, the thing is that in political sciences there is no PURE system ANYWHERE ... If there were then there would be no bail outs for big companies i.e. as in capitalism (just in passing) and another point being even in a communist system (where everyone is equal) but some being more equal that others, and Please don't confuse Socialism with a Communist state either again polarization and one hits walls again, that said.

Besides the fact that state/ provincial/ territorial regulations in standards vary so much !

PGEMTP:

I see that you include the CCEMT-P so ... is that the 2 week course or a 6 month in hospital program ? again no standardization ..... this is all I am saying.

Now Retrospectively WE had an Prehospital Professions Association in Alberta then it magically changed to just a regulatory body the province took over and sadly under the very poor guise of "self regulation" I call it the fairies magic wand of legislation so then one needs yet another layer of representative (in one form or another) and not to JUST represent labour but to advance the profession, if one allows the employer to dictate wages in a private service for profit .. well good luck paying your mortgage, question is that working for YALL at 9 bucks an hour ?

I believe that being reimbursed appropriately for ones education/ experience say as in Nursing just off the top of my balding head in fact all 3 goals in nursing here are extremely well represented and an very effective means to an end.

The AARN is called Alberta Association of Registered Nurses but they also negotiate for wages and working conditions, clear regulation and advancing their profession in one "entity" and therfore only one wallet ... just me but this could be the reason for acceptance of RNs.

Therefore should we reinvent the wheel or learn from history .. just saying.

Should we not look to this as a solution, it works that way for IAFF as well, maybe as WE (just fell off the turnip truck as a Profession) and we could be entirely missing the boat entirely. Perhaps first set standards and very similar to RNs which are very much standardized in many many countries. I believe we have much to learn from RNs and FF and LEO's just look at their wages and working conditions compared to ours .. need I say more ?

We in Alberta now face:

1- Union involvement (and dictated by Alberta Health as its the employer now in a so called Public Health Care System, its a no brainer)

and

2- a separate regulatory body bent on implementing the governments will ... again.

and

3- an association, with absolutely zero for teeth in any issue (s) well back to the (I got so mad I wrote a Letter scenario) sheesh.

NOW due to dissection of the troops many members HERE again are looking for another type club to get things back on track, as the vast majority have seriously lost faith with all these splinter groups and in this writers opinion the divide an concur technique has been very successfully implemented by our elected government officials then appointing more government "YES" men / women" to put controls in place.

Honestly if one is so ignorant as to believe PreHopspital Care is about Saving Lives ... give yourself a pinch ... cause bottom line .... its all about the money ..... it always is.

cheers

Edited May 12, 2009 by tniuqs

[tniuqs]

Yeah your right, but we need more organizatins like we need more swine flu. We all ready have that joke of the NRemt do really need anything more. If anything we as ems need to get rid of the vollies and start making a standart at the field level first, even if it's just a cultral standard.

HuH?

IFAA = International ASSOCIATION of FIRE FIGHTERS ... did you miss the association part ? Its the largest Union in North America btw.

But you are on the right track their "benzo man" push standards that would eliminate the do gooders ... ever see or hear of a full time volunteer MD or RN ? ... other than a humanitarian effort ?

cheers

[Diazepam618]

HuH?

IFAA = International ASSOCIATION of FIRE FIGHTERS ... did you miss the association part ? Its the largest Union in North America btw.

But you are on the right track their "benzo man" push standards that would eliminate the do gooders ... ever see or hear of a full time volunteer MD or RN ? ... other than a humanitarian effort ?

cheers

I agree, I don't think ems is ever going to be a career climbing profession, but thats just my personal opinion, however I do think the vollies are a big problem with why ems is the way it is as far as standards and wages.

[tniuqs]

I agree, I don't think ems is ever going to be a career climbing profession, but thats just my personal opinion, however I do think the vollies are a big problem with why ems is the way it is as far as standards and wages.

Nope: I don't believe I inferred that we are doomed as a profession, just look beyond your borders for some examples of progress, but when your looking in a mirror your not going to get very far ... especially if you look like me ... turnip face .. te he.

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/colu..._have_that.html

I believe we have to learn from others trial(s) and error(s) and not keep repeating our own history, thats where we as a group fail horribly we are trapped in our own paradigm.

We first have to overcome the problem of finger pointing, especially if its to blame slow development in EMS on one group or another because that is akin to "Circle the Wagons and SHOOT into the Middle, Mentality" this is almost never productive, one does not hear the IAFF complaining paid vs volly.

One can not state empirically because many geographical areas can not afford anything more than reliance on those that realistically "just want to help out" but for some reason this is accepted by the public ... well until they find out first hand 'vive la differance' It certainly does shoot a profession down in flames when an 80 hour course in first aid allows someone to get behind the wheel of a Ambulance when others have minimum of 3 years of education invested.

I believe its a matter of education ... of those elected officials as the priority.

I can not believe that unpaid Volunteers if handed a pay cheque would refuse to cash it. Its the system that allowed this to occur but for some stupid reason the legislators allow this to continue ? WHY ?

Lobbying Local/ State / National Government and a serious education of those controlling the purse strings, this the means to the end IMHO and that can only be accomplished with collective organization and representation of labour whatever one wants to use as a handle.

cheers

Edited May 12, 2009 by tniuqs

[PGEMTP]

I to have been associated with unions, and not in the ems industry. I do think very positive of them and think they help the worker and not destroy the industry whatever it maybe. I experience has been with the stage hand union fore LA and orange county California, and even though work was not that steady my dues got me some additional benifits as well as generous hourly wages, enough to work part time as a medic until the FD thing took off. So if unions are used well i think that EMS can benifit from them in other parts of the country. Again I work and iive in southern Cali so the IAFF is great for me current situation, but I do understand that is not the case for the rest of ems.

Wow Dust, Can you explain it again?? Not to be blunt... no wait to be blunt, what does this have to do with improving the progression of the paramedic profession? We are not talking about making 18-22 an hour. We are talking about being recognized, and having a distinct ladder of progression. Having our own real association, governing body, and higher levels of education. We don't even know if half the stuff we do is even worth doing (see the hundreds of studies on prehospital care). I'm not saying we are worthless, because we are not. But we could be so much more. That's the type of legislation I'm looking for. Maybe we can have an association of Prehospital Research or an Association of Paramedicine. We need someone who will actually fight for the core competency of EMS which I don't even know if we have one yet. So yes I'm sorry if I made the mistake in looking into an association that may or may not progress our profession. However, being involved I think is the important point. We are so money driven, me included, that we don't realized EMS will not be as we know it today. We have the power to make it what we want. We need to organize in order for that to happen. I'm not worried about the pay right now. If we organize, educate, research, and put those into effect then money and recognition will follow. I don't know if it was on here or another thread, but someone said that Paramedic should be a B.S. and Management should be a M.S. I couldn't agree more and to go one step further EMT should be A.S. There is a school here in Pittsburgh that requires Medical Assistants to take College English and A&P along with other college level classes. EMTs I feel have more responsibility than a CMA. They should have the education to go with the responsibility. People say we don't get paid enough to be required to get a degree, but, do we have enough education to get paid what we feel we should? I don't think so. We do have the responsibilities that justify a higher pay though.

Does that explain it better?