Massachusetts FAIL

[VentMedic]

I never said basics knew what they were doing and medics did not. I certainly implied that basics are more accustomed to, and do a better job lifting and carrying people down stairs.

We don't have alot of EMTs working in anything other than IFT transfer trucks where I 'm from so the Paramedics do know lifting is part of the job. It's not a choice. So, our Paramedics have been accustomed to carrying patients for many, many years. Granted there was a time when the FD did call for a BLS truck and let the EMTs do all the lifting but now if a private ambulance does run with the FD, they are also usually Paramedics.

Whatever happened here, they should have documented appropriately and if they did have the patient walk down the stairs they should have tried to justify it by documentation.

[Mateo_1387]

I never said basics knew what they were doing and medics did not.

What you did say was.....

At least if two basics were there, they would not hesitate to carry the poor people down the stairs.

Which leads me to believe that you are implying paramedics cannot make a proper decision. In this case, the basics know what they are doing, the paramedics not so much.

The alternative is that basics do not know what they are doing and just carry the patient because that is what they were trained to do. Paramedics on the other hand know what they are doing, but are just too lazy. This insults basics, so I doubt you would support it.

If you would like to think that I am silly enough to equate lifting with EMS skill and ability... then that is your prerogative. It doesn't make it true, but whatever tickles your chain young man.

As quoted exactly by your previous post....

Further evidence that a 2 paramedic system leaves patients with sub-standard BLS care (i.e. lazy paramedics that are not accustomed to carrying people).

So, I surmise by your statements that BLS care includes Carrying People. To provide proper care to someone, I would think a combination of skill, ability, and education are in order. So yes, I think you are silly enough to equate lifting with EMS skill and ability. Obviously, paramedics are not as able to lift patients like the basics are.

I do, however, have animosity towards laziness, and my comments were to point out my observations about the 2 medic system... not medics in general. There are just as many lazy basics out there... but their laziness tends to be toward assessments and patient care, and less toward lifting and moving patients.

My observation, whatever it is worth, has been that a large number of EMSers (medics and basics included) cannot recognize sick patients that should not be walking.

It appears, dear sweet Meat-ee-o, that you are perhaps a little sensitive about your role as a paramedic. You obviously have some deep-rooted fear and hesitance toward your place in the EMS paradigm (probably suffer from a bit of Napoleon complex as well). I can not help you over come your emotional and psychological burdens... but I hope that your reading comprehension is not a skill that makes your para-medicine skills appear wanting.

I only wrote two sentences worth. You sure did come up with a lot of BS from two sentences. Seems to be your trend with the last two posts. I'll go get the boots on, its getting deep in here.

Maybe you are the one who is afraid of their place in the EMS paradigm. Is this another justfication for basics? You trying to tell us you are valuable because you lift better than paramedics?

BTW minus 5 for not being funny. I set myself up for any number of doozies with my last line... and that's all you come with? Goodness me Mateo.

You already showed us by posting you are a doozie. I did not feel much more needed to be said.

Letmesleep - All credibility on your post was unserruptitiously negated with the use of the term "irregardless." You were making some good points... but they can no longer be taken seriously. Banish that term from your repertoire, and then we will be able to move forward amicably.

And we are supposed to take your personal experiences as factual evidence. Provide something we can use besides the ALS BLS blah blah cry cry about we lift better than you do. When you can provide us with something based with facts, then we can have some intelligent discussion.

[p3medic]

I work in a tiered system, ALS trucks and BLS trucks. If I am on a call with a BLS crew, as a rule, one medic is on the chair with one EMT, unless of course they are new and less than half my age, in that case, I am more than happy to rest my weary bones and carry the monitor or drug box. "Got Shoes?" is a BLS thing, running on calls believed to be "minor", ALS calls almost always get carried unless they absolutely refuse, or are no longer "ill", i.e, resolved hypoglycemia, reversed narcotic o.d., etc...Around here, the BLS guys are more likely guilty of walking pts than the ALS crews.

[letmesleep]

I really don't know why I'm even feeding into this Medic v. EMT conversation, but.......

Why wouldn't a dual medic crew be as good at lifting and carrying pts? If you stop trying to (as Mateo pointed out) justify your worth on a truck, and think about what your saying, who is going to carry the pt if your a 2 medic crew? I tried doing the math, and somehow I keep coming up with......the medics. Last time I checked, as a medic, I am expected to take care of my pt's BASIC needs first, or has that changed? Are we not EMTs first (EMT-P)? What about, when in doubt, refer back to the basics?

If insulting EMTs is what your trying to do (which is what all EMTs reading your post should feel), why not call them ambulance drivers?

The point of this thread is about 2 medics who were obviously (at least in what I read) too lazy to do their job, and now they have to answer for it. Let us agree to keep this thread on topic instead of turning it into a Medic v EMT BS argument.

[Richard B the EMT]

Knowing that both EMTs and Paramedics practice the ABCs, in this instance meaning "Ambulate Before Carrying", I hope no one here EVER tries that with chest pain patients.

(I'll not get into the massive list of other patient conditions that shouldn't move under their own steam at this time)

[cosgrojo]

What you did say was.....

Which leads me to believe that you are implying paramedics cannot make a proper decision. In this case, the basics know what they are doing, the paramedics not so much.

RESPONSE: That, my friend, is an exceptionally long stretch. One that is a product of your own prejudices... not mine. That is a statement that I would not make... because I do not believe it.

The alternative is that basics do not know what they are doing and just carry the patient because that is what they were trained to do. Paramedics on the other hand know what they are doing, but are just too lazy. This insults basics, so I doubt you would support it.

RESPONSE: That is exactly what I am saying about Basics... a monkey does what a monkey is trained. I insult basics regularly, it is one of my favorite past-times... you are still transferring arguments that you think I am having because of arguments you have had with other BLS providers in the past. Paramedics do not all know what they are doing, there are many bad medics out there, and a lot of bad schools. I will repeat that I do not think that all medics are lazy, but in my opinion (and in my limited experience), I find that the two medic system in Massachusetts can lead to laziness and stagnant thinking.

As quoted exactly by your previous post....

So, I surmise by your statements that BLS care includes Carrying People. To provide proper care to someone, I would think a combination of skill, ability, and education are in order. So yes, I think you are silly enough to equate lifting with EMS skill and ability. Obviously, paramedics are not as able to lift patients like the basics are.

RESPONSE: You surmise incorrectly. Mountain.... meet molehill.

My observation, whatever it is worth, has been that a large number of EMSers (medics and basics included) cannot recognize sick patients that should not be walking.

RESPONSE: Agreed whole-heartedly.

I only wrote two sentences worth. You sure did come up with a lot of BS from two sentences. Seems to be your trend with the last two posts. I'll go get the boots on, its getting deep in here.

RESPONSE: I did come up with a lot, I was hoping that a bit of abject buffoonery would convince you that I am not taking any of this seriously, and you would be smart enough to recognize it. If you have ever been involved in any threads that I have posted in you would probably have understood that my tongue is usually planted firmly in cheek. It is no accident that I was not able to draw out Dust or any of the other City veterans... cuz they knew what I was doing. I think it is enough for them to chuckle at my ridiculousness. When you are finished putting on your boots... I will lend you my shovel... for that was the point.

Maybe you are the one who is afraid of their place in the EMS paradigm. Is this another justfication for basics? You trying to tell us you are valuable because you lift better than paramedics?

RESPONSE: Again, point missed. Not about you... not about me... comments were about the two-medic system in Mass where the story posted took place. I am not trying to justify Basics.... you are the one making this an ALS vs. BLS argument, not me.

You already showed us by posting you are a doozie. I did not feel much more needed to be said.

RESPONSE: You must be a ton of fun at dinner parties... sheesh

And we are supposed to take your personal experiences as factual evidence. Provide something we can use besides the ALS BLS blah blah cry cry about we lift better than you do. When you can provide us with something based with facts, then we can have some intelligent discussion.

RESPONSE: I never quoted my experiences as fact. I did use the factual article that was posted, as support for my claim about 2 medic systems. No one is crying here my man. I think you are falling into the same old routine of ALS vs. BLS, when I am trying to say that I think that we are all better when we work together. I am arguing ALS and BLS should be paired... How is that a "vs." situation? It is not... but that is what YOU are trying to make of it. You are proving that you can read anything you want out of a post if you ty hard enough... and you had to try pretty hard to do it on this one pal. To quote everybody's favorite Big Toe, "Lighten up Francis."

[cosgrojo]

I hope to someday figure out this whole quoting thing so that I do not make things so hard to read. I am sorry for my cro-magnon like attempts at technology. I am still trying to learn how to use this darn thing. Cut me some slack... I've only been a member since '05.

ADMIN!!! I need a tutorial!

[JPINFV]

 To use quotes, make sure that [quote] is in front of the quoted section and [/quote] is at the end of the quoted section.

[Dustdevil]

It is no accident that I was not able to draw out Dust or any of the other City veterans... cuz they knew what I was doing. I think it is enough for them to chuckle at my ridiculousness.

Damn. Have I become that predictable?

[CBEMT]

Dude. NOT necessary to quote half-page posts. Twice.

In any event, I'm glad to see UMass investing some money in equipment and personnel. A city of that size and volume- no to mention also covering the neighboring city of Shrewsbury- should have had field supervisors already.

Edited July 23, 2009 by CBEMT