How old is too old in EMS

[HERBIE1]

My point is that this is a young person's profession. If you are seeing any significant call volume, it takes a toll. Yes, one man stretchers are a God-send, but there is still a very large portion of the job that IS physically demanding. Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule and some 20 somethings can't perform physically, but let's look at the odds. An average 25 year old vs an average 70 year old- who will be in better shape?

Could a 70 year old do basic transfers, in a controlled setting- I see no reason why not. Problem is, unless you are able to decide which calls a crew responds to(interesting wrinkle, I must say) you normally don't get to choose your situations or types of patients.

It's not just about the person, it's about the patient and the person's partner. I've worked with many women(and yes, a couple men) who simply could not lift, and have hurt myself compensating for their lack of strength. It's nobody's fault, women simply don't have the upper body strength and that is what a significant portion of our job demands.

I said it before- when someone reaches the age of 60 or 70, if they are still interested in EMS, I think their talents and experience would be more valuable as an instructor, a trainer, or mentor vs a field provider. Give back to the profession and utilize the experience they have to instruct new hires. I don't know about other places, but too many of our upper level administrators have had limited or no street experience. How can you effectively formulate and dictate policy when you are so far removed from the field?

Let the people who have put in their time TEACH, give back to the profession, and mentor the next generation. We NEED good people to carry the torch and lead us forward from here. They can provide valuable insight, knowledge, and skills to those who are just starting out. I'm all for education, but what good is someone with a bunch of letters after their name if they have no practical experience to base their teaching on?

You need both.

[tniuqs]

HERBIE1

You some make excellent points ( theoretically) is this truly a young persons profession or a just a requirement of fitness, oh and count me in when trucks start using 3 persons as a standard crew with powered cots.

Sweet!

BUT realistically there are just so many educational or administrative jobs out in the real world and who is to assume that because one is an proven knowledgeable experience field medic that they would automatically be a good instructor ?

Point further in educating adults/ Paramedics (since you raise the question) one should not require education regarding teaching the theory level alone ie A+P, Cardiology, Respiratory doing lesson planning +++ , heck it takes 4 years and a BA to teach grade one where I live, why do the rules of education change for Paramedics?

Education of Paramedic by other Paramedics I believe is folly on many levels, we must include all health care professionals trained as educators as this could give us a stronger professional back ... so to speak.

Honestly in my Clinical s alone OBS/GYN RNs were the experts that trained me for Maternity (thank god, they would deliver more in a week than most Paramedics see in there entire career) spending 2 days in DI with a Radiologist (well that did not hurt either, even though she had never even sat in a gut wagon) attending lectures in infectious disease control by MDs on MRSA, well I think you may see where I am going with this point.

cheers

[HERBIE1]

HERBIE1

You some make excellent points ( theoretically) is this truly a young persons profession or a just a requirement of fitness, oh and count me in when trucks start using 3 persons as a standard crew with powered cots.

Sweet!

BUT realistically there are just so many educational or administrative jobs out in the real world and who is to assume that because one is an proven knowledgeable experience field medic that they would automatically be a good instructor ?

Point further in educating adults/ Paramedics (since you raise the question) one should not require education regarding teaching the theory level alone ie A+P, Cardiology, Respiratory doing lesson planning +++ , heck it takes 4 years and a BA to teach grade one where I live, why do the rules of education change for Paramedics?

Education of Paramedic by other Paramedics I believe is folly on many levels, we must include all health care professionals trained as educators as this could give us a stronger professional back ... so to speak.

Honestly in my Clinical s alone OBS/GYN RNs were the experts that trained me for Maternity (thank god, they would deliver more in a week than most Paramedics see in there entire career) spending 2 days in DI with a Radiologist (well that did not hurt either, even though she had never even sat in a gut wagon) attending lectures in infectious disease control by MDs on MRSA, well I think you may see where I am going with this point.

cheers

Agreed on the education issue. I wasn't necessarily referring to teaching an EMT or paramedic class, but also in-service/inhouse training, or orientation for new hires. Yes, not everyone can teach, and people SHOULD have teaching credentials- although some are natural teachers.

I also agree that there are a limited number of administrative spots too, but there are also other options- field supervisors, PR people for community outreach- we're a creative group, we can figure out something to use the talents of the "experienced" folks. A good, experienced preceptor impacts one student at a time. If you can use that person to impart knowledge to whole groups of people, isn't that a better use of such a valauble resource?

As for our initial training- well we know this is an age old problem. My paramedic program was taught by 2 RN's who had never worked prehospital, but at the time, there were NO paramedics teaching paramedics around here. Like you said- ideally we should learn from the experts in a particular area- would you want to be taught how to intubate by a podiatrist?

[tniuqs]

would you want to be taught how to intubate by a podiatrist?

Well I have been know to put my foot in my mouth ....

[HellsBells]

AWWWW BullSh!t, Would you seriously want a 70-80 year old partner?

Every night I would come into work, look at the board and say that I WAS BY MYSELF TONGHT.

I'd much rather work with a good 70 year old than a whinny bitch, who complains about his partner assignment.

I didn't say she was incapable of the task, just not all that great at it. Besides, electric cots are a wonderful thing.

They are good when they work, but all the ones I've seen weigh a ton, and are terrible to lift manually if the electric mechanism breaks down.

An average 25 year old vs an average 70 year old- who will be in better shape?

Your missing the point though. Were not talking about the everage 70 year old, we are talking about the exceptionally fit old bastard, who can still perform the tasks of the job.

[Diazepam618]

too old is when you die on the job, and not get to the call in the firt place.

[Arctickat]

too old is when you die on the job, and not get to the call in the firt place.

You mean like this 29 year old?

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/In-...uty/2$8263

or this 34 year old?

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/N...l/46$25629

46 must be too old.

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/Top...all/1$8974

How about 42?

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/In-...ing/2$8486

39?

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/In-...ift/2$8424

23?

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/In-...ft-/2$8547

37?

http://www.emtcity.com/lofiversion/index.php/t12555.html

25?

http://www.paramedicweb.info/ipb/index.php...amp;mode=linear

May they all rest in peace.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Arctickat

[tniuqs]

snip

It is becoming apparent that "foot in mouth disease" and/or "engage brain before dumping clutch" is not limited to MY old age bastard disease.

late edit : Whats a firt ?

Edited May 26, 2009 by tniuqs

[ncmedic309]

too old is when you die on the job, and not get to the call in the firt place.

Wow, once again an educated and well thought about post. I'm highly impressed with your ignorance - you show it so well!

[itku2er]

Please lets not resort to name calling.

Kat has some very good points there see its not only the OLD that die its the young too. So were they too OLD for EMS? IF 23 is old then heck I must be preJesus or something. Like I said before as long as they can do the job I have no problem with it. But we are beating a dead horse once again.