SC medics sued

[tniuqs]

Why don't we put the blame where it belongs. This kid would more than likely still be alive if he was wearing his seatbelt (though without more details it is difficult to prove this). Let's blame those who tried to help the kid.

Yea ERDoc all health care staff try to kill their patients ps <sarcasm> maybe counter sue for defamation of character ?

Josh George was driving home May 18, 2008, when an alleged drunken driver ran a stoplight at the intersection of Buck Island Road and the Bluffton Parkway.

Could this be the root cause .... nah ... and no restraint device, a fatal choice BY the driver himself ?

sheesh.

the images get sent to a radiologist on a beach in Australia

Ah the life of the Radiologist.

cheers

Edited May 21, 2009 by tniuqs

[ERDoc]

Yea ERDoc all health care staff try to kill their patients ps <sarcasm> maybe counter sue for defamation of character ?

Could this be the root cause .... nah ... and no restraint device, a fatal choice BY the driver himself ?

sheesh.

Ah the life of the Radiologist.

cheers

I'll admit I missed the part about the drunk driver. You still have to wonder if the outcome with have been alot different if he had been wearing his seatbelt. I now understand the family's anger, but they are directing it in the wrong direction.

[VentMedic]

You still have to wonder if the outcome with have been alot different if he had been wearing his seatbelt. I now understand the family's anger, but they are directing it in the wrong direction.

A 17 y/o is invincible. This is also one of the reasons I am not an advocate of someone driving an ambulance until the age of 21.

Not all lawsuits are about the money but that seems to be the way some must go about it before attention is drawn to a situation or the way policy has been set. This may make this EMS system and others examine their own protocols and see if there is room for improvement. Something can be learned from each of these cases. It could be just a reminder to check your documentation.

The death of the New York Times reporter David E. Rosenbaum is a good example of a family whose lawsuit was initially about money but declined to take the settlement if the Washington D.C. Fire and EMS reviewed their training practices. Of course we have seen what happened to that and the Rosenbaum probably should have just taken the money.

In Florida, it took the death of an off duty Paramedic over 25 years ago for some counties to realize a trauma center might not be a bad idea. He too was initially alert and oriented but bled out from internal injuries while waiting for a surgeon to come in for a consult. By the time the surgeon arrived and the decision to operate was made, the OR team had to be called in. It was too late by the time everyone was in place.

In rural regions like this and without knowing the ability of the EMS service or their protocols, I can see where it is a tough call. However, when this happens in areas where some still take to the closest facility when a more appropriate facility is just a few more blocks, I do take issue with that especially for stroke, cardiac, burns and trauma that fits the criteria.

Edited May 21, 2009 by VentMedic

[ncmedic309]

I don't know too many ambulances that carry retrospectroscopes.

A little common sense, street sense and good judgement will eliminate the need for retrospectroscopes...

[ERDoc]

A little common sense, street sense and good judgement will eliminate the need for retrospectroscopes...

And if this crew had taken the kid to the trauma center and he died enroute, they would have been chastised for not going to the closest facility. They were screwed either way. Again, without the retrospectroscopes there is no way to tell. With the available info, I would give the crew the benefit of the doubt and say that they did what they thought was most appropriate.

So, I just went back and reread the article and realized I missed a few things. The kid died a few days later at the trauma center. I doubt that the extra 2-3 hours would have made much of a difference. My guess is the kid had cerebral edema and he needed a craniotomy, which he got at the trauma center. The swelling probably continued over the next 2 days and they couldn't do anything about it. IF THIS IS THE CASE, you could have had a neurosurgeon with a full OR in the car behind him and the outcome would have been the same. Reading the comments makes it pretty clear how little the general public knows about how medicine works. Some people seem to blame the system. I don't live there so I can't speak from experience, but sometimes the system just sucks and there is nothing you can do about it.

Edited May 21, 2009 by ERDoc

[ncmedic309]

I'm not so much debating that the outcome would have been better if the patient had initially been transported to a trauma center; but the ability of the medics to realize that the patient needed to be at a trauma center, not just some regional medical center with limited capabilities all the way around. I don't want to come across as bashing the crew for the decisions they made either, as stated earlier I'm not aware of their protocols or procedures and they may have been working well within those parameters.

I'm betting if anything the county probably ends up settling or the case eventually gets thrown out after further evidence is brought up (i.e. in this case I hope it's the fact that medics were following established protocols and functioned as expected on the call). It is in a way a catch 22, they probably would have been ripped for the longer transport if the patient had decompensated enroute but were they making the best decision for the patient in terms of more definitive, appropriate care? I guess it's opposite for me, if I had transported this patient to a local medical center vs. the trauma center - I would have been audited and likely put into remediation for the poor decision making.

[HERBIE1]

I agree with the doc that the end result here might have been the same regardless of where he was taken. Point is, I STILL would have taken the patient to the trauma center. As long as you paint a complete and accurate picture of the scene- the condition of the car, the distance he was ejected, the condition of the patient and other victims- let medical control decide. If the patient deteriorates, then it wasn't meant to be, but the Trauma center is his best shot.

As for playing Monday morning QB, isn't that part of what this forum is about??

[VentMedic]

If the patient deteriorated at the local hospital, he would definitely be SOL with no place to go for definitive treatment. If this is an ALS crew and he deteriorated in their truck, hopefully they would be able to establish at least an airway enroute to the trauma center and he would be on his way to a higher level of care.

There is nothing more frustrating than to work at a little local hospital having a patient that you know needs a higher level of care but can do nothing but try to maintain until the patient dies if he can not get transferred out. Often a helicopter may not be able to fly due to weather and the distance can be over 2 hours by ground...just to get the CCT to the hospital and another 2 hours back. That is of course, once all the other testing, calling and paperwork is in order. I've flown many patients out of little local hospitals that I know didn't have a chance due to the time that had passed. Sometimes they have been stuck in the ED for up to 12 hours and other times they have been in the ICU with limited services for days. It is sometimes all we can do to keep them alive for the hour flight.

[HERBIE1]

If the patient deteriorated at the local hospital, he would definitely be SOL with no place to go for definitive treatment. If this is an ALS crew and he deteriorated in their truck, hopefully they would be able to establish at least an airway enroute to the trauma center and he would be on his way to a higher level of care.

There is nothing more frustrating than to work at a little local hospital having a patient that you know needs a higher level of care but can do nothing but try to maintain until the patient dies if he can not get transferred out. Often a helicopter may not be able to fly due to weather and the distance can be over 2 hours by ground...just to get the CCT to the hospital and another 2 hours back. That is of course, once all the other testing, calling and paperwork is in order. I've flown many patients out of little local hospitals that I know didn't have a chance due to the time that had passed. Sometimes they have been stuck in the ED for up to 12 hours and other times they have been in the ICU with limited services for days. It is sometimes all we can do to keep them alive for the hour flight.

This was my point, and doc seemed to concur. Interfacility transfers can take forever and even in a best case scenario, it would still probably be a couple hours before he hit the doors of the trauma center. Yes, this person may very well would have died no matter what- we simply don't know what his injuries were, or whether or not they were even operable. Appropriate care- that's why the trauma system was established.