Oklahoma Highway Patrol and Paramedic Confrontation

[VentMedic]

I talked to some of the Paramedic co-workers yesterday. Mr. White (Maurice) will never be a rich man from this. There is a limitation which is nominal (especially after attorneys fee) and truthfully would be less than most Paramedics yearly salary. If he settles out with a no trial, it would be about $ 30,000. So no, if he does pursue it; it would never be for the money or any financial gains.

That's just part of it. He's bound to generate some monetary gains with the talk shows he has lined up for this.

[jmc149]

First of all I have been on both sides of the fence I was a police officer for 2 years and a Paramedic for the last 23 years. I believe that the Paramedic had NO reason to exit the ambulance leaving his patient. He could not see or hear his patient with the door closed. The trooper wanted to speak to the driver but NO the Paramedic had to get out of the back (leaving his patient alone) and start running his mouth. I think as once being a police officer I would have followed the ambulance to the hospital and then delt with the situation. Even after being a Paramedic for 23 years I still have to side with the Trooper here. He stoped them to have a quick conversation about the failure to yeild and getting the finger which is very unprofessiolnal that would have pissed me off to. I am sure the same ambulance crew gets upset when people fail to yeild to them when they are responding hot and since they were not running hot to the hospital the driver should have just pulled over for the trooper, it only takes a second. And as to the choking thing when the trooper told the medic he was under arrest and then pushed the trooper back that is resisting arrest. The trooper was doing his job trying to get the paramedic to submit to arrest. Granted it should have waited till they arrived at the hospital. When they were pulld over and the delay was going on there should have been a second unit called to finiish the transport which is not adbandonment becuase you are transfering the patient to another medic (continuity of care).... Both the Trooper and the Paramedic should put their big girl panties on and apologize time to grow up fellas....

[tniuqs]

Welcome to a first poster, interesting what bring pple to join ?

I believe that the Paramedic had NO reason to exit the ambulance leaving his patient. He could not see or hear his patient with the door closed.

I believe the Senior Member on Car IS the Individual to deal with, after hearing the "HERE NOW" command this must have been heard by Paramedic White and "inside the unit" !

The trooper wanted to speak to the driver but NO the Paramedic had to get out of the back (leaving his patient alone) and start running his mouth.

Well I listened to the tapes ... not my take that he was running his mouth at all it was clearly the Troopers comments that sparked this confrontation.

I think as once being a police officer I would have followed the ambulance to the hospital and then delt with the situation.

Good but too bad this Trooper did not show any common sense, bent on proving his authority ... good grief.

Even after being a Paramedic for 23 years I still have to side with the Trooper here.

I think you are about the only one after the police and family bystander cam footage .. best do a little review perhaps ?

He stoped them to have a quick conversation about the failure to yeild and getting the finger which is very unprofessiolnal that would have pissed me off to.

Absolutely an un justified and unnecessary stop, the bird issue is not and fact not a conversation at ALL .. Demanding "HERE NOW" come on .. did you see the tapes .. a max 24 second delay to an "NON CALL" to start with and then the wife in the car, what kind of policy is there concerning this for OHP ?

I am sure the same ambulance crew gets upset when people fail to yeild to them when they are responding hot and since they were not running hot to the hospital the driver should have just pulled over for the trooper, it only takes a second.

A good EVO expects that idiots are on the street and does not allow emotion to take control of this situation at ALL !

And as to the choking thing when the trooper told the medic he was under arrest and then pushed the trooper back that is resisting arrest.

You wouldnt want to do that to me, no matter who is wearing what uniform .. I have a RIGHT to defend myself and a choke hold is not LEO SOP here because this method in itself could cause a death .... Bottom line this is police brutality ... and MIGHT does NOT mean your RIGHT, so whats next in the continuum of force ... pull a weapon, hold it to the Paramedics Head when human instinct is fight for survival ... ?

The trooper was doing his job trying to get the paramedic to submit to arrest.

I don't know much about US law, but in Canada LEO need probable cause and quite clearly from tape that was seriously lacking.

Granted it should have waited till they arrived at the hospital.

This should NEVER have happened .. these irresponsible actions, fall directly on the Troopers Head, and he will be paying the pauper.

When they were pulld over and the delay was going on there should have been a second unit called to finiish the transport which is not adbandonment becuase you are transfering the patient to another medic (continuity of care).... Both the Trooper and the Paramedic should put their big girl panties on and apologize time to grow up fellas..

..

No the Troopers anger management should be the issue ! Honestly he needs mental health help, thats the sad part of this whole affair.

cheers

Edited June 18, 2009 by tniuqs

[tniuqs]

That's just part of it. He's bound to generate some monetary gains with the talk shows he has lined up for this.

Agreed Vent ... this go after the LEO job and following actions puts a bit of a darkend shadow on Paramedic Whites "best intentions" IMHO.

cheers

[Ridryder 911]

First of all I have been on both sides of the fence I was a police officer for 2 years and a Paramedic for the last 23 years. I believe that the Paramedic had NO reason to exit the ambulance leaving his patient. He could not see or hear his patient with the door closed. The trooper wanted to speak to the driver but NO the Paramedic had to get out of the back (leaving his patient alone) and start running his mouth. I think as once being a police officer I would have followed the ambulance to the hospital and then delt with the situation. Even after being a Paramedic for 23 years I still have to side with the Trooper here. He stoped them to have a quick conversation about the failure to yeild and getting the finger which is very unprofessiolnal that would have pissed me off to. I am sure the same ambulance crew gets upset when people fail to yeild to them when they are responding hot and since they were not running hot to the hospital the driver should have just pulled over for the trooper, it only takes a second. And as to the choking thing when the trooper told the medic he was under arrest and then pushed the trooper back that is resisting arrest. The trooper was doing his job trying to get the paramedic to submit to arrest. Granted it should have waited till they arrived at the hospital. When they were pulld over and the delay was going on there should have been a second unit called to finiish the transport which is not adbandonment becuase you are transfering the patient to another medic (continuity of care).... Both the Trooper and the Paramedic should put their big girl panties on and apologize time to grow up fellas....

Aplogizing for attempted choking is a little far fetch isn't it? C'mon, what charges would you had placed on a medic if he had attempted to "choke down" a fellow officer? Yeah, let's play and think fair. Sorry, their job is to enforce not create the law. They interviewed CLEET/OHP Academy Training Officers and demonstrated the two approved "choke holds" neither was from the anterior approach and definitely NOT a pressure against the crich/trach as the Trooper performed. Again, against policy enough for dismissal.

There has been NO proof of the driver "flipping" him off, as well. The trooper is the only one describing this. As the family was in the front w/EMT driver. Even the Troopers wife ( who was in the Trooper car) will not testify.....hmmm?

Touching or interfering with a Medic is also illegal. So the Trooper actually commited the crime first, as well exiting the vehicle using profanity is just unexcusable. The trooper knew the driver quite well, and realizes different.

If one studies the video, you can see the "ahh-haa" moment. When the Trooper realizes it being video recorded. Yeah, the ahh-haa my career is over.

There are too many with the Wyatt Earp syndrome out there.

He's bound to generate some monetary gains with the talk shows he has lined up for this.

Not actually. He is really surprised by the + comments and attitudes. There have been nurses and some other health care professional willing to donate for legal funds. I don't believe he is accepting anything. Maurice has been known to rock the boat, as one that is a pro-patient and EMS profession advocate which many do not like.

Personally, if he does decide to get on a circuit. Good. I can think of worse Paramedics representing the profession.

R/r 911

Edited June 18, 2009 by Ridryder 911

[tniuqs]

I can think of worse Paramedics representing the profession.

R/r 911

That I must concur .... AMEN !

Maurice has been known to rock the boat, as one that is a pro-patient and EMS profession advocate which many do not like.

Thanks R/r for the in sight on the motivation behind the action(s) on Whites part, I stand corrected, he is earning more respect as the story unfolds, and here is hoping that if there are interviews he will bring other EMS issues to the for front for the profession and patients sakes.

cheers

Edited June 18, 2009 by tniuqs

[Dustdevil]

There has been NO proof of the driver "flipping" him off, as well. The trooper is the only one describing this. As the family was in the front w/EMT driver. Even the Troopers wife ( who was in the Trooper car) will not testify.....hmmm?

It's hard to believe that anyone would make up something like that. It really is. But on the other hand, it's hard to believe that, with his wife in the car, he would not say something about the gesture when it happened. And that fact that he was completely silent -- never saying a word about it in the car -- really leaves me seriously doubting that he even thought it happened, much less it actually happening. I know that if I had been the trooper, and someone flipped me off, you would have heard something on camera, especially if there were someone else in the car. But no. Neither one of them even gasped. I call bullshit.

If one studies the video, you can see the "ahh-haa" moment. When the Trooper realizes it being video recorded. Yeah, the ahh-haa my career is over.

That's for sure. Had the family member not been there and making it perfectly obvious that he was filming the incident, I am sure that it would have escalated much farther than it did. There was definitely an "oh shit" moment where the trooper decided he had better back down because he was on camera. And if you come to that realisation, then you shouldn't have been doing what you were doing in the first place.

[Ridryder 911]

Franks (the driver) owns a local convience gas station/store. All the local LEO etc, come there to get a free cola. If you notice the Trooper even calls him by first name in the video. From all accounts, that is definitely NOT his nature or they way the trooper accounts that he stuck out his hand and flipped him off. The family denies such, and truthfully; it is doubtful that such a man of this would take the risks of doing so (yes, most of us here really do respect OHP), being witnessed by the family and attempting to make a curve. He did raise his hands up as .... What? As in, what did you want? Gesture.

There is one criteria for dismissal to all State employees. Embarassment, and unbecoming representation of the State. He meets that criteria. Period.

Many of us had felt at one time possible psychological etc... but; when pictures of "old bruising" and attempts to slander the Paramedic; this makes it personal.

Even if the Paramedic has or had a bad past..... So what? He did not know that or was the reason of attempting to "choke" him down. He f*cked up, he knows it. Time to take be a big man and as one poster describes put his big girl panties on and resign. There is NO chance that OHP wants to allow him to make another traffic stop; as he wil be labeled forever. No District Troop Commander wants to have to monitor him and the potential litigation (real or not) will always be there for the State. Again, a high risk and reason for dismissal.

Sorry, he only had two years worth of service. A hometown hero that lost everything in a matter of a few seconds. His reputation and ability to find LEO will be hard to with over a million hits of YouTube.

If nothing more, this could prove as a good example to all of us to be sure to check our own attitude and performance. Learn off others mistakes, this could had been any EMS as much as OHP in regards to rage and tempers.

R/r 911

Edited June 18, 2009 by Ridryder 911

[Diazepam618]

Can't help and wonder that if they wern't a private ems unit that this would have happened in the first place, I mean LAPD wouldn't pull over any of our medic units.

[DirtJerZ]

Yes, make is a hate crime. Just more ammo for anti-cop people who pull reasons out of their ass to bash on cops. Yes, this cop is surely a great example of why cops get bashed. There are, however, countless cops out there who do excellent jobs and their work goes unheard of. Last thing we need is to bring race into it. But, I suppose you can't avoid bad media, since the news trolls live for it like a fat kid does cake. Not to mention the public eats it up, like that fat kid does his cake.

I dont see this as a hate crime, although it very well could be. I see it a power starved cop trying to prove his authority not only to the medic, but to his wife who was watching. everyone has the cops side, His high priced union appointed lawyers definitely got his back

Edited June 19, 2009 by DirtJerZ