Oklahoma Highway Patrol and Paramedic Confrontation

[Dustdevil]

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol on Monday released reports from two troopers involved in the incident with Creek Nation paramedics who were taking a woman to the hospital in Prague.

My vote of confidence goes to those who were immediately transparent. I have no confidence in the collaborated statements of those who took a week to get their stories straight.

[chbare]

My vote of confidence goes to those who were immediately transparent. I have no confidence in the collaborated statements of those who took a week to get their stories straight.

Word. Perhaps, both parties share some of the blame; however, some of the troopers actions were absolutely unacceptable.

Take care,

chbare.

[ncmedic309]

I also agree, it looks like a poor attempt to justify their inappropriate actions, just trying to cover their asses - I call BULLSHIT!

I also wanted to comment on another situation being discussed in this thread, about the possible abandonment of the patient when the provider left the back of the ambulance. Does this really constitute abandonment? I know we've had similar discussions in previous threads but I don't feel that stepping out of the rig for a couple minutes is abandonment. I agree that we should make every attempt to reduce the amount of time, if any that the patient is without a provider at their side, but it happens from time to time. I'll give a brief example, it's only me and my partner on the truck and my partner is attempting to back out of a narrow driveway and needs a spotter. I jump out of the back to assist him out of the driveway and leave the patient alone while doing so - is that abandonment? I don't think so, and I really feel that it's completely irrelevant in this situation.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I also agree, it looks like a poor attempt to justify their inappropriate actions, just trying to cover their asses - I call BULLSHIT!

I also wanted to comment on another situation being discussed in this thread, about the possible abandonment of the patient when the provider left the back of the ambulance. Does this really constitute abandonment? I know we've had similar discussions in previous threads but I don't feel that stepping out of the rig for a couple minutes is abandonment. I agree that we should make every attempt to reduce the amount of time, if any that the patient is without a provider at their side, but it happens from time to time. I'll give a brief example, it's only me and my partner on the truck and my partner is attempting to back out of a narrow driveway and needs a spotter. I jump out of the back to assist him out of the driveway and leave the patient alone while doing so - is that abandonment? I don't think so, and I really feel that it's completely irrelevant in this situation.

The medic was being arrested and that took his control of the patient away from him thus constituting abandonment of the patient. There was no way to know if the medic would have been handcuffed and hauled off but that isn't what happened. But I believe that overall this was a case of abandonment because the medics control or oversight of the patient was effectively ended by the highway patrol.

Had he have never gotten out of the ambulance to check this abandonment issue would not be here today.

But I would have probably done the same to find out what was going on with the situation because I'm in charge of the ambulance and the crew when I'm working and if I become incapacitated or involved in other duties rather than patient care then I'm no good for the patient or my crew.

Just my opinion.

[VentMedic]

The medic was being arrested and that took his control of the patient away from him thus constituting abandonment of the patient. There was no way to know if the medic would have been handcuffed and hauled off but that isn't what happened. But I believe that overall this was a case of abandonment because the medics control or oversight of the patient was effectively ended by the highway patrol.

What about when the Paramedic left the ambulance and patient initially, which he himself stated in his own written words, to intervene and check on another possible patient? That is the event that supposedly escalated into the first assault.

[Just Plain Ruff]

What about when the Paramedic left the ambulance and patient initially, which he himself stated in his own written words, to intervene and check on another possible patient? That is the event that supposedly escalated into the first assault.

yeah Vent, I noted that in a previous post. I was always told that if you run up on an accident or other medical emergency and you as the attendent already have a patient then you don't leave your patient and have your partner check the new patient out.

Bottom line is this - YOU DO NOT LEAVE YOUR CURRENT PATIENT alone in the back of the ambulance to do so is Abandonment.

[Dustdevil]

Of course, this depends upon who you are allowing to be the judge of "abandonment". In a legal sense, you have to establish harm in order to make a case. Seeing as the patient was released soon after arriving at the ER, there was obviously no harm. Consequently, no court is going to even entertain a judgement of abandonment.

On the other hand, whoever regulates EMS in Oklahoma is probably free to decide for themselves, on a case by case basis, what does and does not constitute abandonment. I'd be interested to see if the state defines it on paper, and if so, how specifically.

Similarly, the employer is free to interpret abandonment as narrowly as they wish. And in a very narrow interpretation, you could indeed make a good case for an abandonment charge. I don't see that happening though, as I think it is extremely unlikely that the employer is going to hang their boy out to dry on this one, when he was clearly operating under extenuating circumstances. This is definitely not a textbook scenario that the rulebook prepares you for.

[FireMedic65]

Any updates yet on this fiasco?

[Ridryder 911]

Yeah, its old news. Nothing is being done except internal investigation. I do doubt that abandonment will ever be brought up as it is ludicorous to even imply that being within 15 feet of your patient is abandoning them. The door was open and the husband entered the unit while the fiasco occurred.

I do know that the DA of Okfuskee Co. described he is reviewing the dash cam as the reports from the trooper(s) described. He is as well emphasized that this case has no urgency over any other case. The Paramedic does have an attorney, and I believe one will see a civil law suit and OHP is probably preparing to see how much it will costs.

This is not the first incidence between the OHP and the EMS. Hopefully, new troopers and new resolution will occur.

R/r 911

[Dustdevil]

This is not the first incidence between the OHP and the EMS. Hopefully, new troopers and new resolution will occur.

Exactly. Troopers can be transferred to the other end of the state. Paramedics cannot. Although, I wouldn't wish this hot-head on anyone in other parts of the state either. He's dangerous.

As for abandonment, I agree. As a nurse, I am not required to stay in my patient's room for 8 straight hours, no matter how critical they are. That is not any sane, intelligent person's definition of abandonment. There is absolutely no definition or legal precedent that would hold a medic to that standard.