emtannie Posted June 7, 2009 Posted June 7, 2009 Herbie, you make some good points. A strike is always a dangerous situation, and there is always collateral damage. One of the dangers is that like any business, when a business starts to fail, it isn't the good employees who stay.... they are the ones capable of finding employment elsewhere, and generally have the drive to do so. In the long run, if things continue to circle the drain, the employer is left with those employees who are not the cream of the crop. This is a very real situation in this case, especially with the TILMA regulations which include EMS workers, making it easier for those certified in BC to move to Alberta to work in EMS (I am not getting into the whole ACP thing - I will let squint do that - he is so much better at that than I am). That being said, we must remember the scope of this situation. This strike is regarding the ambulance service which covers an entire province. Some stats: Serves a population of 4.3 million, and an area of 929 730 square kms (358,971 sq.mi). 3471 paramedics 470 ambulances 187 stations 9 aircraft http://www.bcas.ca/assets/About/PDFs/Stati...mber%202008.pdf The land base they cover is more than twice the size of California; the population may be less, but the coverage area is significant. It is pretty easy to say "if you don't like the current wages where you work, then GET OUT, plain and simple." So, if every medic was to quit, and move somewhere else, there would be a land base more than twice the size of california without emergency medical services. Although this would get the point across to the politicians involved here, the logistics of getting all 3500 medics out of BC is not possible. The medics are working to provide a longer term solution; they are continuing to provide services to their communities - I have to give them credit for that.
emtannie Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 But PLEASE ALL don't slam a VETERAN and dust is just one of them on this site, cause if you haven't been there, been shot at and seen the true horror of watching comrades and the innocent brutally killed and burned raped or blown up or ..... worse getting tossed after the fact like used ass wipe .... that's wrong on so every level. Squint - no one was slamming Dust regarding his service to his country. The point was that instead of just pointing out failures, it is up to those with the knowledge, education, and skills, those who have been around the block more than once, those are the people who need to provide input into solving issues, rather than just pointing out failures. The people with the kind of education and experience Dust has are the ones who need to be guiding and developing our newest members, or EMS WILL fail. This thread is not about the horrors of war... this thread is about the strike action in BC, and how we should be supporting our brothers and sisters there, not throwing stones at them.
HERBIE1 Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Herbie, you make some good points. A strike is always a dangerous situation, and there is always collateral damage. One of the dangers is that like any business, when a business starts to fail, it isn't the good employees who stay.... they are the ones capable of finding employment elsewhere, and generally have the drive to do so. In the long run, if things continue to circle the drain, the employer is left with those employees who are not the cream of the crop. This is a very real situation in this case, especially with the TILMA regulations which include EMS workers, making it easier for those certified in BC to move to Alberta to work in EMS (I am not getting into the whole ACP thing - I will let squint do that - he is so much better at that than I am). That being said, we must remember the scope of this situation. This strike is regarding the ambulance service which covers an entire province. Some stats: Serves a population of 4.3 million, and an area of 929 730 square kms (358,971 sq.mi). 3471 paramedics 470 ambulances 187 stations 9 aircraft http://www.bcas.ca/assets/About/PDFs/Stati...mber%202008.pdf The land base they cover is more than twice the size of California; the population may be less, but the coverage area is significant. It is pretty easy to say "if you don't like the current wages where you work, then GET OUT, plain and simple." So, if every medic was to quit, and move somewhere else, there would be a land base more than twice the size of california without emergency medical services. Although this would get the point across to the politicians involved here, the logistics of getting all 3500 medics out of BC is not possible. The medics are working to provide a longer term solution; they are continuing to provide services to their communities - I have to give them credit for that. Again- I'm not debating the merits of what these medics are asking for. The issue is, if the area has been doing without adequate EMS coverage for this long, for the standpoint of "management", I'm guessing their opinion is they can do without it at all. Who is picking up the slack and providing care- ie nonunion providers, and if so, how many are there? Obviously I'm playing devils advocate here- that's all I can do without knowing a lot more details. This is a classic labor/management issue, and it's up to each provider to decide what's best for them. It's great to take a stand on something but if you have a family, they must come first and do what's best for them. If someone chooses to pick up and leave, that's their business. I'm not equating sports with medical care, but some years ago, we had a football strike here and the owners simply hired replacement players to play for them. From a management standpoint, if they can hire "scabs" and not meet the demands of the strikers, that is exactly what they will do. Unless the medics can generate enough public sympathy- and in our business, PR is not our strong suit-I'm afraid that management has the upper hand here. I wish them luck, but I think they also need to be realistic as to their expectations.
Happiness Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 One of the issues is that the full timers as it was told to me was that they are being forced to do overtime and the employer went to court over this because they say if you were available for overtime berfore the strike you should be availabel now and this is to keep up the standard of care. It is also my understanding and I could be wrong that they are scheduling this ot. This is kind by passes the you have to answer the phone to be made t go to work. Now I think the reason for this court justified this is because they can not hire other paramedics to replace the one they have.
mshow00 Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 If it is like that, and everyone is that upset with status quo, why not change it? How hard would be for another EMS service to come in and set up shop. If they(the new company) offers better than what is given by them(the old company) then the old company will have to change its standards and practices or be shut down for lack of staff and/or business?
akroeze Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 If it is like that, and everyone is that upset with status quo, why not change it? How hard would be for another EMS service to come in and set up shop. If they(the new company) offers better than what is given by them(the old company) then the old company will have to change its standards and practices or be shut down for lack of staff and/or business? The ambulance service is completely controlled by the province in BC and they are the only ones who are allowed to provide it. At least that is my understanding.
tniuqs Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 'HERBIE1' Again- I'm not debating the merits of what these medics are asking for. The issue is, if the area has been doing without adequate EMS coverage for this long, for the standpoint of "management", I'm guessing their opinion is they can do without it at all. The management is the government there is not a walk out or lock out, just job action, the government and workers will become locked in "binding arbitration" subject to the labour courts rulings which means (hopefully) parody in wages with like services ... hence the comparisons of FF and LEOs .. drawing this to public attention is a good move : Same Scene, Same Pay. Who is picking up the slack and providing care- ie nonunion providers, and if so, how many are there? You did not read my disjointed post in fact there are actually more medics on the streets than before the strike and besides if one is not licensed by BCAS (hence under CUPE representation goes hand in hand) .. one cannot legally provide service to the public ... confusing is it not ? Obviously I'm playing devils advocate here- that's all I can do without knowing a lot more details. Thanks for playing, an entirely different system than the US and cultural values. This is a classic labor/management issue, and it's up to each provider to decide what's best for them. It's great to take a stand on something but if you have a family, they must come first and do what's best for them. If someone chooses to pick up and leave, that's their business. I dunno about you but getting paid as a part timer a whole 2 bucks an hour to be on call .. well pretty hard to feed ones family dependent on call outs. This is a classic government (which is the management) labour politics and a means to control the workers, one cannot simply replace the medics/ system in an entire province and with Health Care (Private vs Public) in Canada this is a sacred issue, like the right to arm oneself in the US. The government just mentioning "privatization" and it would blow up in there faces. Link to whats happening in Ontario to gain insite. http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Ca...pe-1000190.html I'm not equating sports with medical care, but some years ago, we had a football strike here and the owners simply hired replacement players to play for them. From a management standpoint, if they can hire "scabs" and not meet the demands of the strikers, that is exactly what they will do. Unless the medics can generate enough public sympathy- and in our business, PR is not our strong suit-I'm afraid that management has the upper hand here. Not going to happen in BC ever its not a buisness persay its public delivery of essential services, besides there are no where near enough "scabs" to start with across Canada let alone how would they get trained to operate in the present system ? Would the managers who havent been on the road for a decade or more (and BCAS is very top heavy btw) train them ... in Masset ? I can foresee private transfer services putting a foot in the door ... but replace an entire system overnight well good luck with that and in passing BCAS does need a Makeover ... this could be the impious for change. I wish them luck, but I think they also need to be realistic as to their expectations. They don't need luck, they need smart negotiators and don't underestimate the power of PR and Unions in BC ...
rock_shoes Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I take a couple of day's off and things just explode. Long term members attacking each other... Let's keep things in perspective. There are a few very important points that need to be made here. 1) We are all labourers. Some of us are educated and some of us are not. Some of us have significantly more education than others. Having a degree does not preclude you from being a labourer. 2) Healthcare in Canada is our "Sacred Cow". Finding a Canadian who doesn't support public, not for profit, healthcare is something akin to finding a hamburger in India. The majority of US citizens have strong feelings regarding the right to bear arms while Canadian citizens have strong feelings regarding healthcare. 3) It isn't as simple as moving to another service if you don't like what's going on with BC Ambulance. BCAS IS THE ONLY EMS PROVIDER WITHIN THE PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA. Unless you are willing to move cross-country and re-license in another province BCAS is your only employer option. 4) I stated this previously but I think it bears repetition. This isn't about union vs. non-union. This about 3500 people with limited other employment options dealing with a very HOSTILE EMPLOYER. 5) If this job action results in a complete re-structuring of BCAS the majority of us will welcome it. What was sufficient 20 years ago just doesn't cut it now. BC paramedics know that and are not the ones who are unwilling to make major changes in both deployment strategies and educational standards. As a side note. I'm more than willing to discuss how BCAS has been a leader in the past. If you legitimately wish to have that discussion Dust I will participate in another thread. Discussing it in this one would end up being a major thread jack.
Happiness Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Would the managers who havent been on the road for a decade or more (and BCAS is very top heavy btw) train them ... in Masset ? Squint I'm going to take that as a compliment because I know that is how you intended it to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dustdevil Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 First of all you never started this thread to have any sort of intelliget conversation, you did it to be sarcastic. I did it for the same reason I post every other news article that I post here. To inform. No agenda. But I am certainly as welcome to post my opinions on these stories as anyone else, aren't I? It is never to late and people with your attitude is the reason things do fail. "Never Give Up" I agree. More power to them. I just honestly think their ship is sunk. Again, my opinion. So one question I have about the above is Why are you still doing the education when you should be out golfing. Why does someone with cancer want to finish high school? Because sitting around and waiting to die is not a particularly pleasant way to go out. I'll stick with what I know, which is medicine. But, if there are any wheelchair golf teams around Texas, please let me know about them and I will consider your suggestion. So you say that because you put in 35 years of service and went through 3 wars that gives you the right to judge, sorry Dust it dosnt. Who did I judge? I posted a story and said their strike was a failure. That's it. Don't play the innocent victim here. You and your attack dog friend here made it personal, not me.
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