Chief1C Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Keep hearing these quotes about him going to heaven.. Child molesters don't go to heaven.. I don't believe in "A" god, or Heaven or hell.. But for the sake of the theory of a heaven or a hell.. Even the child molesters who pay their victims to keep shut, would go to hell. If one existed.
Ridryder 911 Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) Keep hearing these quotes about him going to heaven.. Child molesters don't go to heaven.. I don't believe in "A" god, or Heaven or hell.. But for the sake of the theory of a heaven or a hell.. Even the child molesters who pay their victims to keep shut, would go to hell. If one existed. At least it is nice to know your not God. Sorry, as one of faith, I didn't read anywhere that child molesters, those that murder and even those that judge others cannot go to heaven. That is if they truly repent and ask for forgiveness between their maker and themselves. It does not erase the past, and to those of us with faith, God is the only one to determine the eternal fate. If he was guilty, then just action will be taken and carried out appropriately. Since your a non-believer what would that matter to you? Actually, you have more faith to believe that there is not a life after than if there is. That itself is a whole lot of faith, to think that this is all there really is. I may not understood or even approved his action(s), lifestyle but the more I have heard from those they actually knew him, and it appeared he was more screwed up emotionally and was more asexual than anything. This is not uncommon especially of those that had been sexually and physically abused while in their youth. The whole family has more skeletons than many grave yards, and it definitely is shown in each of the children. There are a few that really do know the real truth and I doubt they are posting in EMS forums. What I do know is that he was simply a great entertainer, musician, dancer and humanitarian. That he definitely had issues, but how much and what degree?......Who knows and really who cares? He's dead. Let him RIP and appreciate the music that can be associated with the memories it produced over the decades. R/r 911 Edited July 8, 2009 by Ridryder 911
robert gift Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 You'd expect a better outcome? So, the fact that he had a personal doctor and he was (possibly) present over overrules biology and nature? Nature should yield simply because you feel having a doctor in his presence should mean he lives? Yes, the doctor MAY have been incompetent, but there's no way to arrive at that conclusion based on the statements you've made. So if he had daily 12-leads, they would have caught everything and he would have lived? You know this? I would have expected the MD to have examined MJ with 12-lead prior to all of this. Hopefully something would have been revealed. Once MJ went asystole, I'd expect the MD to keep him salvageable if a witnessed arrest. Difficult to understand how a previously healthy young MJ was allowed to deteriorate to such a condition, especially with a personal physician in his employ.
tniuqs Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 'robert gift' date='Jul 8 2009, 06:22 AM' post='218782'] I would have expected the MD to have examined MJ with 12-lead prior to all of this. I must agree with LS .. your not in EMS, 12 lead could show an arrhythmia, or ischemia or infarct but without any prior knowledge of PMHX, prior medications (unless you read and believe EMS tabloids like the Star or Enquirer ) your continuing to embarrass yourself. Hopefully something would have been revealed. Yup sure just like the in the prime of their career's basketball, hockey or soccer players on an international level that suddenly go into arrest or v fib ... and drop dead from (fill in the blank) ... meh. Once MJ went asystole, I'd expect the MD to keep him salvageable if a witnessed arrest. and I can pull monkeys out of my ass upon command ... Difficult to understand how a previously healthy young MJ was allowed to deteriorate to such a condition, especially with a personal physician in his employ. Quite the assumption there again. good grief RG, stop please, you should be asking questions not making foolish assumptions ... sheesh.
tniuqs Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Keep hearing these quotes about him going to heaven.. Child molesters don't go to heaven.. I don't believe in "A" god, or Heaven or hell.. But for the sake of the theory of a heaven or a hell.. Even the child molesters who pay their victims to keep shut, would go to hell. If one existed. I know of 2 things after much study in theology "almost" every denomination world wide believes in 2 common denominators: 1- An almighty power. 2- Life (in some form or another) after death. ps I will let you know as I believe in the north american aboriginal view, I will return as my spirit guide. btw If you are radical Islamic .... and with the previso that have had the Koran interpreted for you ... blowing yourself up to kill innocent infidels or those you disagree with, is a sure fire way to get into that heaven, personally I have had enough of virgins and just a spoonful of honey in my herbal tea .. thanks. Christianity generally accepts that SINS can be forgiven, I'm with R/r911 on this: I may not understood or even approved his action(s), lifestyle but the more I have heard from those they actually knew him, and it appeared he was more screwed up emotionally and was more asexual than anything. I do not read the tabloids in fact I believe they are written by evil people motivated by greed and perpetuating lies beyond belief ! PERIOD. What I will Judge Mr. J. on was his music and the good that he attempted to do in his life ... speaking poorly of the dead is bad karma in anyones books ... well accept for Hitler. cheers
Eydawn Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 My two favorite quotes in this whole thread: Are there unicorns where you live? I bet there are. -- CBEMT and I can pull monkeys out of my ass upon command ... --tniuqs ROFL!!!! Y'all just made my morning... Wendy CO EMT-B
robert gift Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I must agree with LS .. your not in EMS, 12 lead could show an arrhythmia, or ischemia or infarct but without any prior knowledge of PMHX, prior medications (unless you read and believe EMS tabloids like the Star or Enquirer ) your continuing to embarrass yourself. Yup sure just like the in the prime of their career's basketball, hockey or soccer players on an international level that suddenly go into arrest or v fib ... and drop dead from (fill in the blank) ... meh. and I can pull monkeys out of my ass upon command ... Quite the assumption there again. good grief RG, stop please, you should be asking questions not making foolish assumptions ... sheesh. Yes, I am making ASSumptions - based solely upon hearsay. 12-lead could indicate or may not reveal arryhythmias, infarct/ischemia , etc. coupled with PMHx. In his condition, I'd expect the MD to be checking these things. (Maybe he was.) Unlike the athlete sudden deaths, MJ was not participating in a strenuous physical activity - that I know of. My diagnosis: Plastic emboli traveled to his brain.
tniuqs Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) My two favorite quotes in this whole thread: Y'all just made my morning... Wendy CO EMT-B Thanks Wendy, like sheep to the slaughter ..... My favorite (s) is something I just noticed in someones avatar: Occupation:Volunteer firefighter/ worst responder AGREED ! Yes, I am making ASSumptions - based solely upon hearsay. - 10 on the dust devil scale and continuing to do so. 12-lead could indicate or may not reveal arryhythmias, infarct/ischemia , etc. coupled with PMHx. - 25 for violating EMT city rules of engagement for copyright infringement without quoting source .... OR just a plain DUH. In his condition, I'd expect the MD to be checking these things. (Maybe he was.) and I can still pull monkeys out of my ass upon command ... Unlike the athlete sudden deaths, MJ was not participating in a strenuous physical activity - that I know of. He was in training for his European Tour. My diagnosis: Plastic emboli traveled to his brain. From a peripheral IV start ? cardiac cath balloon rupture or central line maybe sub clavian or I.J. in the field ? umm umm ... oh never mind .... but I know R/r 911 will like that one. Go back to school you have no understanding of anatomy or physiology, and minus 500 on the squint scale for continuing to embarrass yourself. There comes a time when we hear a certain call When the world must come together as one There are people dying and its time to lend a hand to life There greatest gift of all We cant go on pretending day by day That someone, somewhere will soon make a change We are all a part of Gods great big family And the truth, you know, Love is all we need [Chorus:] We are the world, we are the children We are the ones who make a brighter day So lets start giving Theres a choice we're making We're saving our own lives its true we'll make a better day Just you and me Send them your heart so they'll know that someone cares And their lives will be stronger and free As God has shown us by turning stones to bread So we all must lend a helping hand [Chorus:] We are the world, we are the children We are the ones who make a brighter day So lets start giving Theres a choice we're making We're saving our own lives its true we'll make a better day Just you and me When you're down and out, there seems no hope at all But if you just believe theres no way we can fall Let us realize that a change can only come When we stand together as one [Chorus:] We are the world, we are the children We are the ones who make a brighter day So lets start giving Theres a choice we're making We're saving our own lives its true we'll make a better day Just you and me And I will remember Micheal Jackson for this ...... his music ! Edited July 8, 2009 by tniuqs
robert gift Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) ... He was in training for his European Tour. From a peripheral IV start ? cardiac cath balloon rupture or central line maybe sub clavian or I.J. in the field ?... No. From his nose. Sorry, I did not think it needed explaining. What kind of training would he be doing for a European Tour? Seriously, was he in some kind of exercise program when this occured? Edited July 8, 2009 by robert gift
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