Responding with lights and siren

[unique]

I would like some input on responding with lights and siren when the light is red and the traffic is jammed. What would you do?

Also, the same scenario but crossing over onto oncoming traffic. The majority dispatched calls are emergency where I work and we have to respond with lights and siren. Even though alot of times once we arrive on the scene there're not. I am being told conflicting stories. I just want to hear more input on the response because I just started working.

Thanks,

Unique

Edited July 20, 2009 by unique

[Kiwiology]

What's the point? We are taught to always have the red/white lights going but if the traffic is blocked and nobody can move sitting there going "wee-woo-wee-woo-phazer-wail-yelp-phazer-wail" makes you look retarded and serves no point so we turn the siren off (not that we use it much anyway).

We can cross over onto the opposite side of the road, use bus lanes, flush medians, no parking zones etc ... although I am personally not one for the red lights and sirens aspect there's nothing wrong with mounting a traffic island and going up the Northwestern flyover on the wrong side of the road with your red lights going at 1am every once in a while for a bit of a kick

[Christopher.Collins]

Oooh that can be a loaded question here lol. Dont get me wrong though its not a bad question at all, if your concerned about safety during certain procedures it never hurts to ask.

First and foremost a few rules:

1. Whatever the cars around you are capable of doing... assume they will

2. ALWAYS STOP AT RED LIGHTS I dont care if you have an opticom system or you have someone bleeding to death in back.

3. If you have your partner or other emergency personel with experience in emergency driving in the right seat then they better be communicating clear or not clear when approaching an intersection... and they better be damn sure (though of course you cant always predict what someone will do). BUT THIS SHOULD NOT SUBSTITUTE YOUR ASSESING YOUR SURROUNDINGS FOR YOURSELF!

~~~~~~~~

First and foremost its best to approach any intersection from as far left as you can move... (POV) drivers who know their heads from a$$es should know to move to the right for lights and sirens. With that said you may sometimes find that the right lane is open... (man I know Ill catch flak for saying this) if I must proceed from the right I turn my siren off and mannually yelp it every so many feet. Approaching vehicles from the right may confuse them and they may cross in front of you... do it as little as possible.

As far as going into oncoming traffic this is sort of common sense... they will not always wait for you and youll probably have to wait for them. When clear procede into the oncoming lane SLOWLY... watch for intersections on your left that may be blind for drivers coming off of it and turning towards you. Dont forget to breifly stop when you finally get to the intersection... you may be blocking oncoming traffic at that point but its far better than driving into cross traffic.

You may find yourself in situations where there are islands at intersections.... if you can SAFLEY do so try to go around them from the left. Getting stuck behind a car at an island may panic the driver and force them to freeze up or worse drive into traffic to get out of your way.

Honestly I can go on but at the moment I need a break. Hope this helps.

[speedygodzilla]

If we are blocked and the light is red, we shut down (lights and siren off, secondary lights on so traffic behind may get the idea). This goes for having a dieing pt in the back or on my way to a code. I try to leave room so I can go to whatever lane is clear. "Its there emergency not mine." Where I work it is company policy.

This being said make every effort to take oncoming, right lane, or what ever safely and slowly. Nothing annoys me more than seeing emergency vehicles pushing traffic and causing near accidents!

The way I understand it, if I push traffic and it causes an accident me and my crew are held liable.

[Christopher.Collins]

Essentially any accident your involved in while running lights and siren will be your fault. It may get thrown out if it goes to court depending on the circumstances but you will have to take into account civil suits filed by the families (including your patient if already on board)... additionally depending on your company and or union they may just need a fall guy to cover their own a$$.

In terms of being stuck in traffic, deffinatley leave yourself some room between you and the car ahead. A good rule of thumb would be that you can see the back tires touching the pavement. This way if you have the oppurtunity to get out you still have room to move around them. You should never back up to make room... and I honestly dont care if you have one of thoes fancy back up cameras, they show you whats their but they still have blind spots and frankly the depth perception sucks.

All and all technology is wonderful but should never EVER replace good sound judgement.

[rock_shoes]

What a loaded question!

1) Always stop at a red light before proceeding through even if you are running L/S. Going through without ensuring other motorists have yielded right of way would be just plain stupid.

2) If you cannot make it through an intersection without forcing other motorists into said intersection on a red or amber light, shut off all emergency equipment and wait for the light to change before re-engaging. It's unacceptable to force others into a dangerous situation to reach a patient a couple of seconds sooner.

3) Only ever enter opposing lanes of traffic as an absolute last resort. This is one of the most hazardous things any of us do and should be avoided if at all possible.

4) Use your head and shut the L/S down if it becomes too dangerous. In my service we have the responsibility to exercise judgement and downgrade our response should continuing to run L/S put either ourselves or the public in undue danger. This decision can be based on traffic or weather conditions and is in fact well supported. Any service without a similair (or perhaps even better) policy is not worth working for.

5) Watch your speed. Ambulances are large, heavy vehicles that can do a lot of damage in a hurry. A one tonne van with an ambulance body does not handle like a sports car. So don't drive it like one.

The amount of time saved by running L/S is usually minimal. Compound that with the fact that arriving 30 seconds sooner rarely makes any difference with regard to patient outcome, and you have to wonder if running L/S is ever worth the risk. Keep that in mind any time you find yourself "running hot". It will help keep you, your partner, and your patients, a great deal safer.

This of course is only my own opinion, though I’m certain many share in it.

[Christopher.Collins]

...

The amount of time saved by running L/S is usually minimal. Compound that with the fact that arriving 30 seconds sooner rarely makes any difference with regard to patient outcome, and you have to wonder if running L/S is ever worth the risk. Keep that in mind any time you find yourself "running hot". It will help keep you, your partner, and your patients, a great deal safer.

...

Couldnt agree more. On a simillar subject its the reason Im quite outspoken about running lights in POVs. No one except line officers should really be allowed this.

Also, we cant forget to mention that there are a lot of times that a call will be downgraded either while en-route by first responders or on arrival by ourselves. Its stupid to drive like an idiot in the first place, but to drive like an idiot for nothing is another story. To digress a bit, arnt a lot of medevac crashes eventually found to be that the chopper was unnessecarry in the first place?

[HellsBells]

line officers

What is a line officer? Why can he have lights on his POV?

[robert gift]

I would like some input on responding with lights and siren when the light is red and the traffic is jammed. What would you do?

Also, the same scenario but crossing over onto oncoming traffic. The majority dispatched calls are emergency where I work and we have to respond with lights and siren. Even though alot of times once we arrive on the scene there're not. I am being told conflicting stories. I just want to hear more input on the response because I just started working.

If you can see far enough ahead that no left turn lanes are available, or you can't get to them, just get on the opposing traffic side of the raised median and proceed against traffic.

Not unsafe at all.

Opposing traffic, now after their intersection and moving, cannot help but see you, and, since you are in their lane 1, will most often move to their right.

Much easier and more expedient than trying to get stopped vehicles ahead to clear a path.

Many stopped drivers are afraid of moving into other vehicles or objects, even when you can see they have adequate room.

Also, you don't encourage vehicles ahead to pull forward into the intersection in harm's way, though they are legally allowed to do it.

We silence the siren as soon as we can see drivers are aware of the EV.

No use "yelling" at them - which is what a siren is doing. They know you're there.

Lakewood FD was responding eastbound.

I was told they came up behind an eastbound vehicle in lane 1 stopped for his RED signal.

He moved forward and was broadsided by a southbound vehicle with GREEN and killed.

Firefighters did not like my confonting why they did not just go around the median

and take the hazards of trying to get through, themselves.

Instead, they "coerced" the citizen to move out of their way.

Nonsense about saving minimal time.

We save A LOT of time not having to wait in line for traffic signals which may take two cycles to get through. Sometimes three cycles for left turns.

Speed does not save much time, and it is not worth the risk.

Edited July 20, 2009 by robert gift

[Richard B the EMT]

Local Laws and protocols will prevail, but keep in mind New York State's Vehicle and Traffic Law #1104. It boils down to the simple fact that you operate your vehicle with "due regard" for any and all other traffic on the roadways.