Responding with lights and siren

[Lone Star]

It's been my experience that an emergency vehicle running 'hot' must ALWAYS bear to the left. Driver's education and state laws state that when approaching emergency vehicles with lights and sirens activated, the driver must pull to the RIGHT and stop.

If the intersection ahead is blocked by cars stopped at a red light, I have the right to cross into the oncoming lanes as long as I have both emergency lights AND an audible warning device (siren) activated. Once the intersection has been negotiated, you MUST return to 'your side of the road'

As has been said before, safety is your PRIMARY concern! This includes stopping at intersections even if you have your lights and siren activated. Lights and siren do NOT guarantee the right of way, it's merely a request for the right of way be yeilded to you.

Always assume that the other drivers don't see you and drive accordingly. You MUST drive with 'due regard' for the general public. This means that you really shouldn't be 'flying down the road', just because you've got lights and siren turned on.

[Just Plain Ruff]

If you can see far enough ahead that no left turn lanes are available, or you can't get to them, just get on the opposing traffic side of the raised median and proceed against traffic.

Not unsafe at all.

Opposing traffic, now after their intersection and moving, cannot help but see you, and, since you are in their lane 1, will most often move to their right.

Much easier and more expedient than trying to get stopped vehicles ahead to clear a path.

Many stopped drivers are afraid of moving into other vehicles or objects, even when you can see they have adequate room.

Also, you don't encourage vehicles ahead to pull forward into the intersection in harm's way, though they are legally allowed to do it.

We silence the siren as soon as we can see drivers are aware of the EV.

No use "yelling" at them - which is what a siren is doing. They know you're there.

Lakewood FD was responding eastbound.

I was told they came up behind an eastbound vehicle in lane 1 stopped for his RED signal.

He moved forward and was broadsided by a southbound vehicle with GREEN and killed.

Firefighters did not like my confonting why they did not just go around the median

and take the hazards of trying to get through, themselves.

Instead, they "coerced" the citizen to move out of their way.

Nonsense about saving minimal time.

We save A LOT of time not having to wait in line for traffic signals which may take two cycles to get through. Sometimes three cycles for left turns.

Speed does not save much time, and it is not worth the risk.

robert do you really believe what you wrote?

going into oncoming traffic is a sure fire way to get hit. Even though you can see far away does not mean that other drivers who you are coming at directly in their lanes of traffic can see you. I had to investigate a mva with our ambulance service many years ago that the crew drove into the oncoming lane of traffic. The driver of a small car said she didn't see the ambulance because of the sun in her eyes and she hit the ambulance head on. Two crew members injured, 3 people in her car injured. Your advice that it's "not unsafe at all" is Bad advice.

We do not save A LOT of time not having to wait for traffic signals, The time you save will may be 30 seconds or so but pushing people through the intersection or causing Granpa Jones slam on his brakes at the intersection and subsequently causing Mother Baker to hit him with her car is not worth the risk to other drivers. Most people cannot hear the sirens even with no radio on until the sirens get to less than 100 or so feet away. couple that an airconditioner going or a stereo blaring and there is no way you will be heard.

And you should never force another vehicle out into oncoming traffic in order to get out of your way.

You are ultimately responsible for any action that you cause. If you force a car out into the intersection just so you get through that pesky red light and that car gets creamed by a semi or another car the damnit, YOU are the root cause of their accident and you will be held liable (or should be) for their accident.

Please think before you post in the future, the advice you gave above was just plain BAD!

[robert gift]

robert do you really believe what you wrote?

going into oncoming traffic is a sure fire way to get hit. Even though you can see far away does not mean that other drivers who you are coming at directly in their lanes of traffic can see you. I had to investigate a mva with our ambulance service many years ago that the crew drove into the oncoming lane of traffic. The driver of a small car said she didn't see the ambulance because of the sun in her eyes and she hit the ambulance head on. Two crew members injured, 3 people in her car injured. Your advice that it's "not unsafe at all" is Bad advice.

We do not save A LOT of time not having to wait for traffic signals, The time you save will may be 30 seconds or so but pushing people through the intersection or causing Granpa Jones slam on his brakes at the intersection and subsequently causing Mother Baker to hit him with her car is not worth the risk to other drivers. Most people cannot hear the sirens even with no radio on until the sirens get to less than 100 or so feet away. couple that an airconditioner going or a stereo blaring and there is no way you will be heard.

And you should never force another vehicle out into oncoming traffic in order to get out of your way.

You are ultimately responsible for any action that you cause. If you force a car out into the intersection just so you get through that pesky red light and that car gets creamed by a semi or another car the damnit, YOU are the root cause of their accident and you will be held liable (or should be) for their accident.

Please think before you post in the future, the advice you gave above was just plain BAD!

We FREQUENTLY go into the opposing lane.

But I do not do it when the sun is low behind me - a good point I failed to list! (I also don't bicycle with the sun low in front of me.)

If a vehicle comes at me, I stop.

If the vehicle were to continue coming at me, I would blast the horn and even back or make evasive move.

If vehicle hits me, dead stopped with lights, headlight flashers, siren, horn, - their fault entirely. (No different than rear-ending a vehicle stopped in front of them.)

(But being their fault entirely does no one any good.)

Who would be stupid enough to go blindly forward if they cannot see into what they are driving?

Some drivers. So we're ready for them.

Going into opposing lane is far better than influencing someone ahead to pull forward into cross-traffic.

With better sound-proofed vehicles with better stereos and air conditioning, we never count on the siren being heard, so don't count on the siren stopping cross-traffic.

I often don't have it sounding unless useful.

We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped.

We save a lot of time, - often more than just one signal cycle worth of backed-up traffic.

And we're in and out of the intersection and not confusing or impeding traffic. The sooner I get out of everyonelse's way, the better.

Edited July 21, 2009 by robert gift

[Just Plain Ruff]

We FREQUENTLY go into the opposing lane.

But I do not do it when the sun is low behind me - a good point I failed to list! (I also don't bicycle with the sun low in front of me.)

If a vehicle comes at me, I stop.

If the vehicle were to continue coming at me, I would blast the horn and even back or make evasive move.

If vehicle hits me, dead stopped with lights, headlight flashers, siren, horn, - their fault entirely. (No different than rear-ending a vehicle stopped in front of them.)

(But being their fault entirely does no one any good.)

Who would be stupid enough to go blindly forward if they cannot see into what they are driving?

Some drivers. So we're ready for them.

Going into opposing lane is far better than influencing someone ahead to pull forward into cross-traffic.

With better sound-proofed vehicles with better stereos and air conditioning, we never count on the siren being heard, so don't count on the siren stopping cross-traffic.

I often don't have it sounding unless useful.

We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped.

We save a lot of time, - often more than just one signal cycle worth of backed-up traffic.

And we're in and out of the intersection and not confusing or impeding traffic. The sooner I get out of everyonelse's way, the better.

We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped

HOLY CRAPOLA(shit) BATMAN, you've got to be kidding? You really didn't just write that did you?

If you did then your company's driving policy should be revamped and fixed.

Not stopping at red signals unless you cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped, what about the driver who has a clear lane of traffic and HAS the green light. He goes on his merry way driving thru the green and you bust the red light, WHAM you've just been hit or worse yet You've just broadsided a guy who had the green and now you've hurt this guy or yourself and your partner.

Please stop while you are ahead and stop giving out bad information and advice. STOP STOP STOP

[robert gift]

"We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped>"

HOLY CRAPOLA(shit) BATMAN, you've got to be kidding? You really didn't just write that did you?

If you did then your company's driving policy should be revamped and fixed.

Not stopping at red signals unless you cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped, what about the driver who has a clear lane of traffic and HAS the green light. He goes on his merry way driving thru the green and you bust the red light, WHAM you've just been hit or worse yet You've just broadsided a guy who had the green and now you've hurt this guy or yourself and your partner.

Please stop while you are ahead and stop giving out bad information and advice. STOP STOP STOP

Why stop when you see that all cross-traffic has stopped?

You are just wasting your time and everyonelse's.

OF COURSE you ensure that there is no one proceeding through their open lane under their GREEN signal before entering their lane.

(Northbound vehicles in lanes three, two and one had stopped for the westbound EV.

I am now in the middle of the intersection.

Even though minority-appearing woman in southbound lane one had clear view and had plenty of time to slow and stop, I am not convinced she will.

She somewhat slows but continues forward. With my bumper against her lane, the siren was blasting into her vehicle has she passed right in front.

No problem because I had stopped.)

A fire truck halted by unrelenting traffic at a similar intersection often has to have a firefighter flag traffic.

By the time drivers hear the truck's siren, and realize the fire truck is not parked but trying to cross, it is too late to stop.

This improved when the driver learned to NOT STOP, but slow and keep moving forward so that drivers could see he was not parked.

Still, sometimes we need to stop and flag.

We save a lot of time - often more than just one signal cycle's worth of backed-up traffic.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Why stop when you see that all cross-traffic has stopped?

You are just wasting your time and everyonelse's.

OF COURSE you ensure that there is no one proceeding through their open lane under their GREEN signal before entering their lane.

(Northbound vehicles in lanes three, two and one had stopped for the westbound EV.

I am now in the middle of the intersection.

Even though minority-appearing woman in southbound lane one had clear view and had plenty of time to slow and stop, I am not convinced she will.

She somewhat slows but continues forward. With my bumper against her lane, the siren was blasting into her vehicle has she passed right in front.

No problem because I had stopped.)

A fire truck halted by unrelenting traffic at a similar intersection often has to have a firefighter flag traffic.

By the time drivers hear the truck's siren, and realize the fire truck is not parked but trying to cross, it is too late to stop.

This improved when the driver learned to NOT STOP, but slow and keep moving forward so that drivers could see he was not parked.

Still, sometimes we need to stop and flag.

We save a lot of time - often more than just one signal cycle's worth of backed-up traffic.

I'm not sure if I want to continue arguing the point but can you prove to me that the person 5-7 car lengths away down the road to the right will be able to see you when you come thru the red light when they have a green light? They are going to be continuing on their merry way and they think that since they ahve the green that they can continue going. According to you they will be able to see you and they'll stop.

Why don't you go ask your local law enforcement officer if you have to stop at a red or that if you see that all cross traffic is stopped that you can just go right on thru.

Or am I misunderstanding you, and are you saying that you slow down coming to a red and if all traffic is stopped then you go on through very slowly and cautiously. Or am I reading you right that you come to an intersection at the posted roadway speed and you see all cars stopped and you just go on through the light?

Your responses so far have been that you go willy nilly through the intersection if you have the red and all those with the green who are stopped stay stopped.

I'm sorry I'm harping on you but your attitude that you go through red lights and it's ok, and you drive into oncoming traffic is ok is just wrong and will get you in trouble.

NO emergency is worth wrecking your ambulance and not getting there. This is the reason why I feel that every EMT and Medic out there needs as much driving training as they can get.

Robert, maybe this is the reason why the brits do all that practice driving under emergency conditions that you freaked out so much about several weeks ago. So many emt's get put out on the streets with no drivers training whatsoever. Is that how you were trained? There is no conscionable (sic) reason to put a new emt on the streets driving without putting them through some sort of emergency driving class.

The life you save by slowing down may be your own.

Why stop when you see that all cross-traffic has stopped?

You are just wasting your time and everyonelse's.

OF COURSE you ensure that there is no one proceeding through their open lane under their GREEN signal before entering their lane.

(Northbound vehicles in lanes three, two and one had stopped for the westbound EV.

I am now in the middle of the intersection.

Even though minority-appearing woman in southbound lane one had clear view and had plenty of time to slow and stop, I am not convinced she will.She somewhat slows but continues forward. With my bumper against her lane, the siren was blasting into her vehicle has she passed right in front.

No problem because I had stopped.)

A fire truck halted by unrelenting traffic at a similar intersection often has to have a firefighter flag traffic.

By the time drivers hear the truck's siren, and realize the fire truck is not parked but trying to cross, it is too late to stop.

This improved when the driver learned to NOT STOP, but slow and keep moving forward so that drivers could see he was not parked.

Still, sometimes we need to stop and flag.

We save a lot of time - often more than just one signal cycle's worth of backed-up traffic.

Northbound vehicles in lanes three, two and one had stopped for the westbound EV.

I am now in the middle of the intersection.

Even though minority-appearing woman in southbound lane one had clear view and had plenty of time to slow and stop, I am not convinced she will.She somewhat slows but continues forward. With my bumper against her lane, the siren was blasting into her vehicle has she passed right in front.

No problem because I had stopped.)

Crotchity want to take this one - the words in bold?

[Happiness]

Well personally if im awake so is everyone else As far as I am concerned I drive to the law Stop at stop signs ec. The only thing that is allowable is that I am allowed to drive 25km faster than the posted speed limit.

Out of curiousity Robert did you respond to the Has your ambulance been pulled over by the cops? Im thinking that you may have a few stories.

[speedygodzilla]

Its there "emergency," don't make it yours. Need I say more Robert? Please keep safe.

[Richard B the EMT]

In February, 1977, I got broad sided by the one vehicle traveling in the left hand lane going westbound, on a major east/west thoroughfare, that didn't see that all other east/west traffic had stopped for my southbound ambulance that was turning east. My partner had lights and siren on, and cannot blame the sun in the Eldorado driver's eyes, as it was roughly 10 PM, on a clear night.

No, the L&S are not automatic clear right of way, but a clamoring for right of way to be yielded by the other drivers to you. Crossing against the traffic signal should be by eye contact with the drivers in each lane, one at a time.

Someone said, "Don't come to a complete stop, but keep moving forward so they don't think you're parked".

Wrong, Wrong, WRONG! It will end up badly, with you having the forward corners of both the emergency vehicle and the other vehicle connecting. The impact will spin out one or both of the involved vehicles, and smash into other vehicles, possibly causing multiple spin-outs and collisions. I wish that on no emergency vehicle, or civilian vehicle. As already indicated, crossing against the traffic signal should be by eye contact with the drivers in each lane, one at a time. If it is 3 lanes in each direction, let it mean 6 individual stops to make the crossing safely.

[robert gift]

In February, 1977, I got broad sided by the one vehicle traveling in the left hand lane going westbound, on a major east/west thoroughfare, that didn't see that all other east/west traffic had stopped for my southbound ambulance that was turning east. My partner had lights and siren on, and cannot blame the sun in the Eldorado driver's eyes, as it was roughly 10 PM, on a clear night.

No, the L&S are not automatic clear right of way, but a clamoring for right of way to be yielded by the other drivers to you. Crossing against the traffic signal should be by eye contact with the drivers in each lane, one at a time.

Someone said, "".

Wrong, Wrong, WRONG! It will end up badly, with you having the forward corners of both the emergency vehicle and the other vehicle connecting. The impact will spin out one or both of the involved vehicles, and smash into other vehicles, possibly causing multiple spin-outs and collisions. I wish that on no emergency vehicle, or civilian vehicle. As already indicated, crossing against the traffic signal should be by eye contact with the drivers in each lane, one at a time. If it is 3 lanes in each direction, let it mean 6 individual stops to make the crossing safely.

Yes, don't come to a complete stop, but keep moving forward so they don't think you're parked.

Since police, fire and EMS park with ALL lights needlessly operating, when they see you stopped they think you are parked.

By the time they hear the siren, they are too close and it is too late to stop.

(There should be a rule that when parked, only slower flashing lights operate, no 360s, strobes or such.)

Don't go charging into the intersection.

Slowly maintain forward progress so they see and understand.

Of course, stop if necessary.

Likewise, I dont' stop if we see everyone has stopped.

It just slows our progress and makes everyonelse wait longer.

But a driver may be merrily traveling in his open lane approaching his green signal, oblivious why everyonelse around him has stopped for their green signal.

So you don't enter that lane unless you can see no one is coming.

(Saw Denver Police nearly get smacked doing that.)

At some intersections, where we can't see if it is clear, we must slow and stop if necessary before continuing.

Colorado Revised Statutes:

42-4-108. exceptions for emergency vehicles... (2) ... The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may: ... (B.) Proceed past

a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation.

We don't stop unless we need to.

Edited July 21, 2009 by robert gift