Responding with lights and siren

[joesph]

Alot of good point's all around all I can ad is we should remember that we respond to an incident not react to it.

[Christopher.Collins]

...

We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped.

...

...

Why stop when you see that all cross-traffic has stopped?

You are just wasting your time and everyonelse's.

...

Disclaimer: I did not finish reading any posts following these. I know I should know better and Im sure many of you who know me on here can vouch for that. If this part of the discusion has ended I appologize but I just cant leave this alone. I am sorry. Additionaly if I make any course statements, I appologize but this almost offends me and I need to blow some smoke.

My heart just sank very deeply. This is the scariest "honest" statement I have ever heard next to a freind admiting she knelt on the chest of a combative patient. Actually this is worse.

Whos time are you wasting if your dead? Whos time are you wasting if you cause a major accident and have to delay response elsewhere to treat thoes involved? I was going to let it go when you initially stated you dont stop for red lights... even though you emphasized it. But then you post such an arrogant statements as you did in your post to follow it up? You do not belong behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle.

Assume for a moment your approaching this said clear intersection where everyone has stopped. DO YOU KNOW THAT THOES CARS WILL WAIT FOR YOU? DO YOU KNOW THAT NO ONE WILL RUN ACCROSS THE ROAD IN FRONT OF YOU? DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT LEAST 50-100 YARDS UP EVERY SINGLE CROSS ROAD AND MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE IS SPEEDING DOWN TO THE INTERSECTION BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO THE INTERSECTION?

You brother are incredibly arrogant. I can only hope that your not nearly as wreckless as the statements you have made. I have held a commercial drivers license for some time now as well as EVOC... and it shouldnt take either to know that you can be the safest driver on the road, your still in danger of others around you.

Do you think you have what it takes to be involved in the loss of a life? A former coworker of mine was driving lights and sirens to a hospital... struck by a drunk driver coming around a blind turn. The drunk driver was killed. My friend was not found at fault but to this day suffers from PTSD from the incident.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE?

Ok Im stepping off my pedistal now.

[robert gift]

Well personally if im awake so is everyone else As far as I am concerned I drive to the law Stop at stop signs ec. The only thing that is allowable is that I am allowed to drive 25km faster than the posted speed limit.

Out of curiousity Robert did you respond to the Has your ambulance been pulled over by the cops? Im thinking that you may have a few stories.

Never got caught!

No, as indicated above, there is no requirement to stop.

There is also no speed limit.

I also favor that so that the driver is looking out and not looking down at the speedometer and calculating the do not exceed speed.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Never got caught!

No, as indicated above, there is no requirement to stop.

There is also no speed limit.

I also favor that so that the driver is looking out and not looking down at the speedometer and calculating the do not exceed speed.

Robert, you have just proven that you should never be put behind an emergency vehicle ever ever ever again.

"there is also no speed limit" is just plain asinine to say.

I think you are just messing with us.

You really disturb me and your advice is just plain wrong

DISCLAIMER to all those who have no ems driving experience and are using this thread to get some pointers

ROBERT is NOT someone who you should take any advice about driving from. Please if you do be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.

[JPINFV]

"there is also no speed limit" is just plain asinine to say.

I think you are just messing with us.

You really disturb me and your advice is just plain wrong

You know. I will agree with him on that. The speed that the ambulance should be traveling at is the speed that is safe for conditions considering traffic volume, road and route design, ambulance design (being able to provide a stable ride), weather conditions, etc. Saying X speed, or speed limit plus X encourages people to hit that speed because, hey, they're going an acceptable speed, regardless of the conditions.

[spenac]

For those with no knowledge of EMS Lights and Sirens(L&S) are only a request for right away. You still must drive with due regard for others safety. There have been many EMS workers get tickets and also lose in court when they wrecked because of speed and or running past red lights/stop signs. If I recall correctly some have even been jailed for their driving and its results.

Also keep in mind if it takes you 10 minutes to drive to the hospital following all laws, running L&S and ignoring all laws will only save 30-60 seconds if you make it there alive. If they die 30-60 seconds from the hospital because you drive safely, they would have died at the hospital had you gotten there quicker by risking everyones safety.

[robert gift]

Disclaimer: I did not finish reading any posts following these. I know I should know better and Im sure many of you who know me on here can vouch for that. If this part of the discusion has ended I appologize but I just cant leave this alone. I am sorry. Additionaly if I make any course statements, I appologize but this almost offends me and I need to blow some smoke.

My heart just sank very deeply. This is the scariest "honest" statement I have ever heard next to a freind admiting she knelt on the chest of a combative patient. Actually this is worse.

Whos time are you wasting if your dead? Whos time are you wasting if you cause a major accident and have to delay response elsewhere to treat thoes involved? I was going to let it go when you initially stated you dont stop for red lights... even though you emphasized it. But then you post such an arrogant statements as you did in your post to follow it up? You do not belong behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle.

Assume for a moment your approaching this said clear intersection where everyone has stopped. DO YOU KNOW THAT THOES CARS WILL WAIT FOR YOU? DO YOU KNOW THAT NO ONE WILL RUN ACCROSS THE ROAD IN FRONT OF YOU? DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT LEAST 50-100 YARDS UP EVERY SINGLE CROSS ROAD AND MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE IS SPEEDING DOWN TO THE INTERSECTION BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO THE INTERSECTION?

You brother are incredibly arrogant. I can only hope that your not nearly as wreckless as the statements you have made. I have held a commercial drivers license for some time now as well as EVOC... and it shouldnt take either to know that you can be the safest driver on the road, your still in danger of others around you.

Do you think you have what it takes to be involved in the loss of a life? A former coworker of mine was driving lights and sirens to a hospital... struck by a drunk driver coming around a blind turn. The drunk driver was killed. My friend was not found at fault but to this day suffers from PTSD from the incident.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE?

Ok Im stepping off my pedistal now.

"Pedestal"

Stop apologizing for speaking your peace, oh holier than thou One.

Practicality. Not arrogance.

Driving since 1968.

AAA Driver instructor during college summer breaks starting 1971.

Teaching EV driving 1976 because I was driver instructor. (Before EVOC)

EVOC instructor, 2000.

But that means nothing.

You can do your "ritual" and pretend to dead stop at every red signal, avoiding colliding with nonexistent vehicles, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians.

You can also blow your little siren continuously, annoying people in their homes, warning non existent drivers, motorcyclists, bicyclists, pedestrians.

There are few accidents.

Don't let mishaps happen.

You make sure you are clear.

Sorry about your friend.

When I drive, I cannot know if there is a drunk, incompetent, deaf person or straying toddler around a blind corner.

So I slow ready and able to avoid/evade.

Likewise, when I come to a four-way stop intersection, if I can clearly see no one is present or approaching,

I proceed without stopping and with no siren.

If no one is there, does it matter that I am breaking some of your rules?

Edited July 22, 2009 by robert gift

[robert gift]

Robert, you have just proven that you should never be put behind an emergency vehicle ever ever ever again.

"there is also no speed limit" is just plain asinine to say.

I think you are just messing with us.

You really disturb me and your advice is just plain wrong

DISCLAIMER to all those who have no ems driving experience and are using this thread to get some pointers

ROBERT is NOT someone who you should take any advice about driving from. Please if you do be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.

Then explain why.

Each point.

There is no prescribed speed over which you should not exceed. (In Colorado)

Example: Some believe they cannot exceed the speed limit by more than 10 mph.

So what are they doing?

They are looking for speed limit signs.

They are also looking down at their speedometers to make sure they are not traveling faster than "45 in a 35 mph zone".

What should they be doing?

Looking out and driving for conditions, whatever they may be, which may require operating under the posted speed limit.

Should I also add a disclaimer?:

Does ruffems know the REAL world?

Must one obey all his little rules - made for those who do not think.

-Boys and girls, we must always have our little sirens going.

-We must always stop at red signals and stop signs.

-We must never exceed the speed limit by more than -n- mph.

I failed to mention my best advice.

Assume there is a straying toddler out there.

No matter what he has done, no matter how wrong he is, you can't hit him no matter what.

Edited July 22, 2009 by robert gift

[JPINFV]

Should I also add a disclaimer?:

Does ruffems know the REAL world?

Must one obey all his little rules - made for those who do not think.

-Boys and girls, we must always have our little sirens going.

-We must always stop at red signals and stop signs.

-We must never exceed the speed limit by more than -n- mph.

Alternatively do you know the real world? Yes, these rules are made for those that you can not allow to think on their own. Unfortunately, it's much easier to make rules to cover the lowest common denominator and make everyone conform than to have one set of rules covering those that cannot make good decisions and a separate set of rules for those that can make good decisions.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Then explain why.

My responsed to Each point have been delineated by ***'s

There is no prescribed speed over which you should not exceed. (In Colorado) ***then colorado is doing a disservice to their community. If you are going 90 miles an hour on a clear road and someone comes to the highway from a side road. They do not realize how fast you are driving and they turn into your lane are you going to honestly say you are going to be able to stop that ambulance from 90miles an hour. I think not.

Example: Some believe they cannot exceed the speed limit by more than 10 mph. *** I do not believe that 10 mph is the golden rule but that rule of thumb is there for a purpose - you can stop an ambulance quicker at 10mph over than you can at 40-50 miles per hour over.

So what are they doing? What are who doing?

They are looking for speed limit signs.

They are also looking down at their speedometers to make sure they are not traveling faster than "45 in a 35 mph zone".

What should they be doing?

Looking out and driving for conditions, whatever they may be, which may require operating under the posted speed limit. **** but you just said there are no speed limits so why are you driving under the posted speed limit.

Should I also add a disclaimer?:

Does ruffems know the REAL world? *** I've been a paramedic for 16 years and 2 years as an EMT.

Must one obey all his little rules - made for those who do not think. -

-Boys and girls, we must always have our little sirens going. ****YES you do have to have your siren on - if you have lights on then your sirens should be going. Do people do that? not always but you WILL lose in court if you don't have all your ambulance emergency beacons and sirens on at the time you are responding.

-We must always stop at red signals and stop signs. ***conventional wisdom is that you do stop at red signals and stop signs. The reason behind the stopping is that we have to be extra vigilent in responding and if that requires that we stop at all signals and signs then so be it.

-We must never exceed the speed limit by more than -n- mph. -- ***I never said anything about exceeding the speed limit by more than N mph. I just took offense to you saying there was no speed limit.

***Listen, here's the point, You as an emergency vehicle operator are 100 percent responsible for your actions and those around you. You are requesting the right of way - not expecting it NOR demanding it. You have to be sure that if you go through a red light and you cause an accident or you are involved in an accident then you will be looked upon on a higher level of responsibility than the average american driver. That is the real world that I live in.

I am so glad that you have not been in an accident but I just take your comments as cavalier and I've been with partners who had your mentality and most of those partners have been involved in an accident.

I am sure you are a "great" driver, I hope you never get involved in an accident but my past experiences is that those who drive more cautiously than you have advocated in your posts have avoided being in accidents and those who drive like you advocate in your posts have been in at least one accident.

I'm done with this topic because I don't think you or I can see eye to eye and I'm not in the mood to continue to justify my driving habits and my beliefs on driving and I don't think you are in the mood either to argue this point.

I know when to stop because this is counterproductive.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Ruffems