COST of EMS LIcensing

[VentMedic]

Yeah ...great topic I picked...it is great to hear many others having the same problem as me with all these rising costs and more requirments coming down the line.

Aren't your certs and and license good for 2 years?

Don't you want to have EMS recognized as a health care profession which may require more education requirements? Or, would you prefer it remains at 1968 level?

I don't really see anyone complaining here.

I am just glad I don't live in Canada and have tniugs' requirements for RRT.

Edited September 23, 2009 by VentMedic

[Medic One]

Here are some of the fee increases directly from CT DPH website and remember these are YEARLY License fees.

Paramedics are STILL more than RN's

Profession old Fee New Fee

Physician $475.00 $565.00**

Paramedic $75.00 $150.00

Advanced Practice Registered Nurse $60.00 $120.00

Licensed Practice Nurse $30.00 $60.00

Registered Nurse $50.00 $100.00

Now the pisser of it all is that my wife (she is an ER doc) can get her renewal waived is she volunteers somewhere for a minimum of 100hrs. ALL EMSers' are excluded from that!! WTF

**Waiver of Renewal Fee for Physicians Providing at least 100 Hours of Uncompensated Care in Connecticut.

Now thats screwed up...we will have a great dinner conversation tonight!!

Edited September 23, 2009 by Medic One

[tniuqs]

name='VentMedic' date='23 September 2009 - 07:39 AM' timestamp='1253716786' post='224015']

Plague providers?

If you want to be in any profession from healthcare to construction, you may need to take responsibility for obtaining a license and accepting the responsibility that goes with it.

I believe there IS a professional responsibility agreed but to a degree, the more heavily "taxed" the very individuals that are the providers of service, well I foresee that this will eventually lead to a cascade waterfall effect and losing those very experienced as Medic One from our industry. This in itself will lead to a lack of "administrative and medical" continuity, this was discussed with Paramedics of Canada .. just where do Medics go as there is a huge turn over in a 15 year cycle. (ps thats for EMS Solutions for his campfire chat)

Point being the Alphabet courses .. Why Oh Why am I forced to take these over and over its not like I forget on a certian date, just how to work an arrest or treat a suspected AMI, especially when the standards do not change ... sheesh don't get me going. The couses are self perpetuating in fact. Now Hx it took 2 years to change the CPR regs from the initial release from EBM research ie ILCOR to actually be implemented on the streets .. WHY because it became dependent on the Printers to provide the books to AHF and CHF (the Canadian took actually 2 years) ... oh yes it was ! Want professional responsibility look to the "leaders" that dictate standards FIRST! I would have been fried in a court room if "as a professional" actually performed CPR 15:2 before the "law of the Heart Foundations" was put to stone tablets, sorry got on a rant there ...

I seriously hope this is not another "we're not increasing our education until they pay us more or they pay for all of our education" thing. There are too many excuses now coming from EMS providers that keep it from advancing. Giving some another excuse to not go the extra step for themselves as health care professionals is not what this profession needs.

Why not pay us more it works that way in hospital, get a degree and one is worth more to the employer but just wondering where the stellar advancement(s) just are these days anyways, lots of whining on Website(s) but zip in action on the streets or even letters to the people in power, hell some want even more intervention/legislation and remove procedures and decrease scope of practice. Fact in ones face is we are NOT advancing the Profession,we simply can't its up to medical diectors as they dictate what we can and cannot do. IMHO the take over by government here AB has put everything on hold, even hiring its not the practitioner's that should be held accountable, its the restrictive legislators attempting to control wages and workers rights. Point in fact and if one is following The BC thing the Supreme Court of BC has just dictated that BC ambulance paramedics are now obligated to work OT .... can you say indentured slavery ? ... Just what if all of them stop paying their BCAS dues .. fine kettle of phish the BC government would be in I dare say. There comes a time that one must stand their ground otherwise one will get walked over.

It is because some did enter EMS after watching too much TV with crap shows showing more heroes where brains aren't required that some whine about their responsibilites. Had they actually investigated being a Paramedic as a real health care profession they might know they have to get a license and maintain it.

So the media is responsible for portraying this heroism image, I will give Quentin Tarantino a ring and put things right again.

Sorry but if this profession is to grow, the people in it has to accept some of the responsibilites for being considered a medical professional. If your employer doesn't pay for everything you may have to get creative in finding cheaper CMEs or going to equipment company sponsored workshops for your inservices. One may also have to learn tax advantages and if they can itemize their expenses.

Yes there is always the tax route, then again very dependent on the taxation laws (it becomes a very broad picture) the cost of an accountant is not chicken feed either, thing is if ones employer is not willing to support then they will pay the consequences in the long run, so I dare suggest stop the individual "taxes" and have the EMS Operators anti-up.

Also, based on number of hours worked, Paramedics in some states do make more than RNs and RTs. Both the RT and the RN are held responible for renewing their own licenses and signing up for CMEs whether they are hospital sponsored and paid for or not. No company should have to hold the hand of a professional and tell them what they have to do to maintain being a professional. Spoon feeding should have ended with Paramedic school.

Kinda harsh there Vent SPOON FEEDING ? see the above paragraph.

On hours worked ? sorry, I don't understand-are you saying that per hour a REMT-P in the US gets more than an RN or RT ? well just that ain't the facts here in lotus land.

cheers

I am just glad I don't live in Canada and have tniugs' requirements for RRT.

I have no issue with my AB RRT regulatory body, seriously they provide member services far better to our Profession (its called an association too) than the Paramedic College (just government dictated cronies) ... they are advancing the RRT profession through legislation advancing us to the RT Practitioner Level ... as opposed to the other goofs that are not playing with a full box of crayons.

cheers the RRT AGM is in 2 days and I will be there.

Edited September 23, 2009 by tniuqs

[VentMedic]

Why not pay us more it works that way in hospital, get a degree and one is worth more to the employer but just wondering where the stellar advancement(s) just are these days anyways, lots of whining on Website(s) but zip in action on the streets or even letters to the people in power, hell some want even more intervention/legislation and remove procedures and decrease scope of practice. Fact in ones face is we are NOT advancing the Profession,we simply can't its up to medical diectors as they dictate what we can and cannot do. IMHO the take over by government here AB has put everything on hold, even hiring its not the practitioner's that should be held accountable, its the restrictive legislators attempting to control wages and workers rights. Point in fact and if one is following The BC thing the Supreme Court of BC has just dictated that BC ambulance paramedics are now obligated to work OT .... can you say indentured slavery ? ... Just what if all of them stop paying their BCAS dues .. fine kettle of phish the BC government would be in I dare say. There comes a time that one must stand their ground otherwise one will get walked over.

But in reality in the U.S. the Paramedic is still a tech cert with only 600 hours of training in some states and does not have professional recognition.

In the medical directors aren't going to be overly open to extending advanced practices to someone that has all of 6 months invested in their education and for some, only 3 months.

Until the Paramedic gets some credibility through education, not much is going to happen. The employees that go to a hospital have already invested at least the time and money it takes to get a two year degree and sometimes 6 year degrees. So yes the hospital will invest a little more to hang on to these professionals. Paramedics in the U.S. may whine about the cost of their initial education but for some, they chose the fastest and most expensive route to avoid any additional education a college might require such as A&P for a Paramedic program. Unfortunately this pattern has repeated itself over the past 4 decades to where it is difficult to think in terms of "education". When one's Paramedic program was only 600 hours and that was way too long as some would lead you to believe, it is hard to consider taking even 30 - 70 CEUs every 2 years.

On hours worked ? sorry, I don't understand-are you saying that per hour a REMT-P in the US gets more than an RN or RT ? well just that ain't the facts here in lotus land.

The RRT, RN and Paramdic may all make $60k/year but the total number of hours will be different. RNs and RRTs don't normaally do 24s with the exception of a few flight services. Most will do 36 - 40/week.

In Florida and California, our EMS is largely fire based and funded through taxes. All Paramedic CEUs and sometimes the initial cert itself is paid for by the FD. Unfortunately, they prefer to use the $16K - $25K per student route with a contracted medic mill to see that every one of their FFs are Paramedics as quickly as possible instead of $3K to a community college. They will also often contract with these expensive medic mills to get the CEUs for their FF/Paramedics also. They feel the tax payers owe them and will willingly pay whatever increases in taxes they demand.

I have no issue with my AB RRT regulatory body, seriously they provide member services far better to our Profession (its called an association too) than the Paramedic College (just government dictated cronies) ... they are advancing the RRT profession through legislation advancing us to the RT Practitioner Level ... as opposed to the other goofs that are not playing with a full box of crayons.

cheers the RRT AGM is in 2 days and I will be there.

Your RRT is still way ahead of ours in the U.S. The U.S. RRT is slowly catching up but then we are are relatively young profession with licensure being established in 1986 for some of the states and then it took over 10 years to get it in the majority of the states. Massage Therapy was passing us up. BTW, I just heard about the education requirements, both initial and CEUs, for Massage Therapists in Canada. The U.S. Paramedics who fear education had better scratch that off their list as an alternative career possility. That even goes in the U.S. as MT's education requirements are advancing since they gained recognition in hospitals. Heck the MTs that are self employed have to pay for their own education and CEUs which may be as many if not more than the Paramedic.

Edited September 23, 2009 by VentMedic

[Richard B the EMT]

As noted in other strings, I am originally from a volunteer ambulance corps. I vollied, and worked private, and later municipal ambulances concurrently.

While in the vollies, and the privates (mostly inter-facility transfers), I paid my own way for training, and re certification training as an EMT.

When I started municipal (again, while still concurrently at the vollies), I was paid to sit in the municipal EMS academy's classrooms for training/re certification as an EMT.

I am about to go to the Pulse Check Convention, Educational Conference, and Trade Show, of the New York State Volunteer Ambulance and Rescue Association, for the 15th time (event at the Holiday Inn Turf, 205 Wolf Road, Albany NY, October 1-October 4, 2009).

I'll explain the issue in a moment.

The New York State Department of Health has, in recent years, started issuing 5 year EMT-B certifications, with Continuing Medical Education (CME) training of a specified number of classroom and skills hours, while still keeping the older 3 year certs as a full refresher class. If you are not in a "Patient Contact" area of an EMS provider, you are supposedly "restricted" to the 3 year certs.

Obviously, this is causing confusion, as they (NYS DoH) attempts to fine tune this issue.

As it sits now, FDNY EMS EMD personnel who receive the calls through the 9-1-1 system, as they provide "first aid" instructions to the callers, are considered to be in patient contact, but the dispatchers, whop talk with the ambulance crews, and relay "Standby" and "Notification" contacts to the ERs, are NOT considered as being in patient contact. Call takers are allowed the 5 year cert, the dispatchers are only afforded the 3 year cert.

As for my convention? While some of the seminar speakers are actually the same people I'd be sitting in front of, at the FDNY EMS Academy, the FDNY will not accept any of my credit hours for attending. At the same time, the state DoH will accept them.

Confusing? Oh, yeah!

I'm paying for my attending the convention out of pocket, but can, and will again, claim it on my income tax, as a "Cost Of Doing Business" expense, and holding on to all documentation of classes attended, if FDNY reverses their stand.

By the way, even my instructors at the FDNY EMS Academy are telling me to hold on to that documentation, as even they do not know if or when, the documentation will be accepted by the department.