Firefighters Run Over Patient

[Flasurfbum]

Do you know this for a fact?

If you reread the article I quoted (and then highlighted in bold), you will see where the police released parts of their interview with the subject, and that was one of their findings.

[DwayneEMTP]

If you reread the article I quoted (and then highlighted in bold), you will see where the police released parts of their interview with the subject, and that was one of their findings.

I see where you're going man, but I think you mean that it was one of their theories, but not, at this point backed by proofs.

Dwayne

[Flasurfbum]

With due respect guys, its right there in the article.

When the police asked him why he hadn't gone to a doorway instead of the garage bays, the report said, Lenox said he chose that particular bay because he knew that's where the paramedic truck was parked. "He stated that he knew the rescue truck came out of the third door and that was why he laid down there," wrote Officer Mike Jockers.

Direct findings as reported by a sworn LEO.

[tniuqs]

Almost every safety regulation comes as the result of a disaster. It's pretty darn uncommon for someone to be laying in front of your apparatus IN THE STATION like that, but obviously it happens. If that department does not immediately institute a policy of having a ground guide for exiting the station now, they're looking at big trouble down the line. I expect we will see such a policy crop up many other places too. However, I also suspect that way too many drivers will ignore it just like they ignore the requirement for ground guides while backing.

I can't disagree but safety should not be a dictated policy, if so then common sense should be dictated to and that just is not realistic as common sense cannot be taught.... Safety it should be an attitude and agreed adrenal driven seconds do cause errors, here is a point in fact.

That said without being directly involved and just reading the rags, we sometimes form some rather jaded opinion's (in passing) this is a event that could wake call to ALL.

A very realistic situation to the possibility that a frequent flyer, with ETOH on board and would even believed he knew what door would be opened aid in the patients own care ... I dunno have heard far more Darwinian theories.

The question I ask event is there no 360 degree walk around the rig before moving it ?

On to the other highlight and a personal passed on story, 2 of my partners found an 8 ball while doing some food shopping on a wait and return, very difficult time was encountered when they contacted the LEOs and hand over the what they knew was illicit rx, so could the possibility be that a patient managed to hide a small baggy under some laundry before the patient was searched in ER ... well just saying, could WE be the ones jumping to conclusions based on what the newspapers print ?

cheers

Edited October 18, 2009 by tniuqs

[VentMedic]

With due respect guys, its right there in the article.

Direct findings as reported by a sworn LEO.

That makes it okay for the FFs to run over him and ignor safety? Are you saying that because he was where he was regardless of intent, he deserved what he got? Are you in agreement with all of the other "FFs" posting the comments at the end of the original article and that is why you are making this "he was sucidal argument?

What's with the double standard? FFs lecture the general public all the time about checking around their vehicles before pulling out of a driveway. That is part of their "public safety" message. Hell I've even seen them go to court to see someone gets a long prison sentence for doing essentially the same thing.

Are some FFs now just going through the motions of "public safety" and are only in the FDs for the benefits?

[Mateo_1387]

More people are not run over because other FFs do practice what they preach to the public when it comes to vehicle safety. They don't wait for their fire trucks to kill a lot of at their front door before they implement commonsense rules.

Now if only the excessive speed issues, L&S and running 3-4 types of vehicles to every EMS scene could also be addressed, Florida and California might be a little safer for the general public.

I hear ya Vent. Removing all the remote controls seems like a reactive measure rather than a proactive/preventative measure. That is where my problem with the idea was.

[VentMedic]

I hear ya Vent. Removing all the remote controls seems like a reactive measure rather than a proactive/preventative measure. That is where my problem with the idea was.

Could it be possible the FD thought safety was a commonsense thing? I remember when I was first starting out at both the FD and the ambulance service, my mentors told me about the blind spot in front of the truck. Unfortunately my EVOC training did not make any mention of that. Maybe that should be emphasized. This isn't the first time an ambulance or police car has ran over the patient or a member of the public.

Edited October 18, 2009 by VentMedic

[spenac]

Its sad when many utility, oil field company's, etc require that a cone be placed in front and back of their trucks when parked so they have to walk around to get cones out of way. Thus they see that no one and nothing is in front of or behind. Maybe fire should learn from them.

[46Young]

That makes it okay for the FFs to run over him and ignor safety? Are you saying that because he was where he was regardless of intent, he deserved what he got? Are you in agreement with all of the other "FFs" posting the comments at the end of the original article and that is why you are making this "he was sucidal argument?

What's with the double standard? FFs lecture the general public all the time about checking around their vehicles before pulling out of a driveway. That is part of their "public safety" message. Hell I've even seen them go to court to see someone gets a long prison sentence for doing essentially the same thing.

Are some FFs now just going through the motions of "public safety" and are only in the FDs for the benefits?

No, the FF/medics were guilty of some level of negligence for failing to see the victim, but the victim DID lay down at that exact spot (not standing up, but lying down out of sight), at that exact time, for a specific reason, as he expressed suicidal ideations as motivating him to do what he did. He's as much to blame as the FF/medics. Maybe more so, as the law cleared the crew of any wrongdoing based largely on the victim's own account of the event. He made a conscious decision to do what he did. Alcohol may have been a factor, sure. He also made the decision to drink the amount of alcohol that he did. Darwininsm, just like the former EMS employee that was crushed to death by the bay door.

[VentMedic]

No, the FF/medics were guilty of some level of negligence for failing to see the victim, but the victim DID lay down at that exact spot (not standing up, but lying down out of sight), at that exact time, for a specific reason, as he expressed suicidal ideations as motivating him to do what he did. He's as much to blame as the FF/medics. Maybe more so, as the law cleared the crew of any wrongdoing based largely on the victim's own account of the event. He made a conscious decision to do what he did. Alcohol may have been a factor, sure. He also made the decision to drink the amount of alcohol that he did. Darwininsm, just like the former EMS employee that was crushed to death by the bay door.

The guy did not jump out in front of a moving fire truck. He didn't have a phone to tell the FFs to run over him. There's a seriously busy highway nearby with fast moving traffic that he could have walked out on. Instead, the guy was at a big building known to house people who could provide some first aid. Regardless of his intent or his chosen lifestyle, the FFs failed to look. This could have been an elderly person just as easily who passed out while trying to get medical help. Just because the patient has alcohol on board does not make him any less in need of help than the suited businessman who could also pass out while having a heart attack at that door.

Next time you see a person wanting to jump from a building or bridge, just push them if they don't meet your idea of worthiness for care or a reason to approach with caution. You could then use the same arguments of defense that they asked for it.