Firefighters Run Over Patient

[Kiwiology]

I just have to shake my head and sigh.

[VentMedic]

I expect we will see such a policy crop up many other places too. However, I also suspect that way too many drivers will ignore it just like they ignore the requirement for ground guides while backing.

Ask and you shall receive.

The comments' section at the end of this article also has some good reading as did the other.

St. Petersburg firefighters hope new rule will prevent freak accident

By Jamal Thalji, Times Staff Writer

In Print: Wednesday, September 30, 2009

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/fire/st-petersburg-firefighters-hope-new-rule-will-prevent-freak-accident/1040263

ST. PETERSBURG — The accident that left a drunken homeless man pinned underneath a 10-ton city firefighting vehicle is still under investigation.

But St. Petersburg Fire Rescue already has decided to change its policies to prevent a repeat of the accident Thursday that saw firefighters accidentally run over the person they were sent to help.

Starting today, a firefighter will have to open the fire station garage bay doors using the keypad in the garage, not the remote inside the vehicle cabin. That firefighter will then stand outside and quickly scan the driveway before the vehicle leaves the station on an emergency.

"They can take a quick look before the path of the vehicle," said James Wimberly Jr., the assistant chief of operations. "It will have a minimal effect on our response times."

Fire officials want a firefighter to make sure the vehicle's path to the road is clear because that firefighter can see things those inside the vehicles can't. Lack of visibility is one of the factors that led to Thursday's accident, according to St. Petersburg police.

Ted Allen Lenox collapsed outside the garage bay door of Rescue 5, police said, too close for firefighters inside the F-650 paramedic truck to see him.

The paramedics jumped into their vehicle, opened the garage door from the inside, activated their emergency lights, pulled forward — and accidentally ran over Lenox.

The new rule should be distributed to firefighters by today, Wimberly said.

Police are still investigating the accident, while the fire department is conducting its own internal review.

Police told fire officials that Lenox, 41, had a blood alcohol level of 0.46 — nearly six times the legal limit. State law presumes a driver is impaired when the level is 0.08 or more.

The initial 911 callers reported that Lenox was stumbling, then had fallen, outside fire rescue headquarters at 400 Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. St. S. That's where the paramedics were headed.

But Lenox was actually lying in the driveway of the adjacent street, right outside Station 5 at 455 Eighth St. S.

Lenox is in serious condition at Bayfront Medical Center.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/fire/st-petersburg-firefighters-hope-new-rule-will-prevent-freak-accident/1040263

[Flasurfbum]

Who checks in front of their vehicle, every time, POV or work before taking off?

As for those that blast them for driving out, when they were "dispatched for their own station", do your homework. There were multiple locations reported for the victim.

Unless you HEARD the radio traffic for that day, how would you know where they were told to go?

And what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Or do we just allow ourselves to be controlled by the media, who will sensationalize a story to sell papers, or garner readers?

[mobey]

Who checks in front of their vehicle, every time, POV or work before taking off?

As for those that blast them for driving out, when they were "dispatched for their own station", do your homework. There were multiple locations reported for the victim.

Unless you HEARD the radio traffic for that day, how would you know where they were told to go?

And what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Or do we just allow ourselves to be controlled by the media, who will sensationalize a story to sell papers, or garner readers?

At a fairly major integraded service I did a practicum at, it is policy for the driver of any apparatus (Ambulance, firetruck, etc) To do a circle check prior to starting the unit.

It has actually saved a few embarrasments of side doors/compartments being left open while responding to a call.

[Richard B the EMT]

Who checks in front of their vehicle, every time, POV or work before taking off?

If only when leaving the apparatus bays, I'd suggest you look back to posting #6 of this string.

Other than that, does anybody have, on their ambulance, engine, or truck vehicles, one of those mirrors mounted on the front, that shows what is directly in the "blind spot" in front of that vehicle, as is required here in New York City, for Yellow School Buses? They became required after a school bus driver accidentally drove over a small student that had just gotten off her bus.

(Please note that I am calling a bus a "Bus", and not calling an ambulance a "Bus")

[WolfmanHarris]

If only when leaving the apparatus bays, I'd suggest you look back to posting #6 of this string.

Other than that, does anybody have, on their ambulance, engine, or truck vehicles, one of those mirrors mounted on the front, that shows what is directly in the "blind spot" in front of that vehicle, as is required here in New York City, for Yellow School Buses? They became required after a school bus driver accidentally drove over a small student that had just gotten off her bus.

(Please note that I am calling a bus a "Bus", and not calling an ambulance a "Bus")

Nothing on the front, but when leaving the bay the passenger needs to be out of the vehicle until it clears so that they can close the door. Used to hate this system (vs. a garage door opener) but after this and the lady crushed under the garage door I'm very much in favour of it.

We also have a back-up camera on all the trucks. Not that I don't use a backer.

[Richard B the EMT]

Unless it is on the newest ambulances, FDNY doesn't have backup cameras that I am aware of.

It was standard equipment on my 2009 Nissan Quest minivan, and beeps when I get too close to anything while backing.

[Flasurfbum]

http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-news/597966-fla-firefighters-cleared-after-running-over-homeless-man/

Fla. firefighters cleared after running over homeless man

By Jamal Thalji

The St. Petersburg Times

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — They accidentally ran over a man they were trying to help.

Police have cleared the St. Petersburg Fire Rescue paramedics who ran over and injured a homeless man they were sent to help.

The St. Petersburg Police Department's final report said neither emergency medical technician and driver Jason Springer nor paramedic David Bucholz could see the victim lying directly in front of their fire station garage door on Sept. 24.

It wasn't until Rescue 5 pulled forward — dispatched to help Ted Allen Lenox, 41 — that the men felt the rear tire roll over his legs. Firefighters then poured out of the station at 455 Eighth St. S to free and treat him.

But police also uncovered evidence that suggests it wasn't a freak accident that left Lenox pinned under a 10-ton fire rescue truck — it might have been a failed suicide attempt by a drunken, despondent man.

The report cautions that the evidence doesn't prove, but rather "raises the possibility," that Lenox may have intentionally placed himself in danger.

Lenox had a 0.46 blood-alcohol level at the time, police said, nearly six times the level at which a driver of a vehicle would be presumed legally impaired.

Two witnesses told police Lenox was on his back in front of the garage bay door but propped up on his right elbow — and one of them said he saw Lennox like that after the garage door opened. "From the position Lenox had been witnessed in," the report said, "he was not passed out unconscious."

Two witnesses told police that Lenox seemed suicidal before the incident. A friend of his told police he was despondent that he couldn't help get his girlfriend out of jail, had given up on getting sober and often talked of taking his own life when he drank.

But when police went to the hospital to talk to Lenox, he denied a suicide attempt. He said he went to the station to get help for his high blood pressure but firefighters "ran him over."

When the police asked him why he hadn't gone to a doorway instead of the garage bays, the report said, Lenox said he chose that particular bay because he knew that's where the paramedic truck was parked. "He stated that he knew the rescue truck came out of the third door and that was why he laid down there," wrote Officer Mike Jockers.

The report noted that there was no record that Lenox had problems with blood pressure.

Sounds like he fell through the cracks of the system.

This gentleman obviously needs help, for both his substance abuse and his depression.

However, this seems like a well thought out attempt at ending his life, rather then bungling by the crew of Rescue 5, as many have implied.

My hopes are that he gets the help he needs, and that members of this forum will wait until the final investigation has been completed before passing judgement.

[46Young]

If only when leaving the apparatus bays, I'd suggest you look back to posting #6 of this string.

Other than that, does anybody have, on their ambulance, engine, or truck vehicles, one of those mirrors mounted on the front, that shows what is directly in the "blind spot" in front of that vehicle, as is required here in New York City, for Yellow School Buses? They became required after a school bus driver accidentally drove over a small student that had just gotten off her bus.

(Please note that I am calling a bus a "Bus", and not calling an ambulance a "Bus")

For those that don't know, most units in NYC are staged on street corners, the "89". Go watch any unit in the city, any time of day, FDNY EMS or NYC 911 participating hospital alike, and watch when they get a job. It's a safe bet that no one gets out of the bus and does a lap before they go 63. Even if it's at night and they were passed out before being awakened for the job. I know that I never did. Nor did anyone else I've known.

When I worked 46 Young T1 at the old 89 of National/Roosevelt, IFO the Walgreens there, there were quite a few drunks lurking about at all hours of the night. I've frequently observed them sleeping on a park bench, up against a building, on the corner, in the gutter, once on the double yellow in the middle of the street! I've gone 63 and noticed that someone fell off my back bumper. Twice. Some drunk decided to sleep on the back step. It's not a stretch to believe that one could go nite-nite IFO the front tire in the gutter. I've worked several "man under" jobs at a couple of 7 train elevated platforms. The drunk leanes over looking for the train, and falls in. Sometimes they're intact, sometimes we're searching down the block for body parts. Some people cross the street, slowly, in moving traffic, walking all hard and stuff, daring someone to hit them. Some teens think it's funny to jump out IFO our moving rig, saying to hit them so they could get rich and sue.

Darwinism. I don't wish anyone dead, I don't know the whole story as to why this individual laid down IFO the bay door. was he AMS with head trauma? Was he so drunk that he had no clue? Or was he just plain stupid? Don't know. Can't say at this time. What I can say is that I don't feel sorry for someone who injures/kills themselves due to pure stupidity. I do submit that drinking yourself into such a stupor that you have no clue where you are or what you're doing qualifies as pure stupidity, though. If you're at a house party or have sober friends to look after you it's one thing. If you're walking around the neighborhood three sheets to the wind is a whole other thing entirely. It's why I don't entertain refusals from drunks. Get them to a hosp where they're safe until they sober up. If you secure a refusal and they get smacked by a car, guess who's to blame?

Edited October 17, 2009 by 46Young

[DwayneEMTP]

Not sure what policies are, but I have too many years of farm experience to move without checking...It's just second nature.

I do think the odds are poor that they were dispatched to the firehouse, yet failed to recognize it. I mean, who's better with directions and addresses than Fire?

So, doubting that this man used his personal cell phone to call 911, my money would be on the likelihood that they were responding to whichever pay phone is located closest to the station. My guess is that he believed he'd get the brush off is he knocked on the door, but the 'calvary' by dialing the phone.

This guy obviously needed serious psychiatric/medical attention. They dispatched Fire and for once that actually ended in the best medical attention money can buy...sometimes things do work out.

Dwayne

Edited October 17, 2009 by DwayneEMTP