Basic questions about EMS field

[Dustdevil]

Vent Medic speaks the wisdom. Listen to her.

The only good reason to do LVN before RN is if you absolutely MUST start making money in a year instead of two years. Otherwise, it is much better for your professional development to go straight to RN. Remember, the money you will be making as an LVN will not be significant. And once you are working long hours for that small pay, it's a lot harder to finish school than doing so while the student momentum is greatest.

Also, the online transition programmes are seriously overrated. They always take much longer than a traditional classroom progamme. They're usually much more expensive. They offer much less education. And the great majority of those who start them never finish them after spending many thousands of dollars on them. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Becoming an RN before a paramedic is the only intelligent way to progress. Doing the opposite is back-asswards. The best way to excel in any profession is to establish a solid educational foundation and THEN specialise, not vice versa. RN to Medic will almost always result in a more competent practitioner than Medic to RN. I say this from a LOT of experience with both.

Niftymedi911's list is about the total sum of opportunity available for non-firemonkey paramedics in Floridia. And competition in those agencies is pretty solid, because way too many people go to medic school in this state for the number of jobs available.

Conversely, I dunno what you've been reading at allnurses.com, but that's why I quit going there. You get more confusion than answers there usually. The RNs whining about not finding a job have only themselves to blame. There is no shortage of opportunity. But the universities are graduating a lot of young BSNs these days, so in many big cities, the low-experience ADNs are left with the grunt jobs that some won't take. A lot of nurses want the exciting, special care jobs, so the competition is heavy. If they can't find one, they just whine about not being able to find a job, rather than take the multitudes of Med-Surg jobs that are wide open.

If you want to work in the field, unless you get on with one of those few non-fire EMS systems that do things well, you're not going to ever see a good living wage. And the excitement you think is there usually isn't. Certainly not exciting enough to make up for the difference in money between the ambulance and the ER. I think your best bet is to focus on nursing for the short term, get some serious experience as an ICU and CCU nurse, and then transition into flight nursing. Alternatively, after some serious ER experience, there are remote medical jobs in offshore and industrial settings that are very satisfying and exciting, as well as better paying than most others.

Whatever you choose, good luck, and welcome!

[Floridastudent]

That's the problem - it really would be near impossible for me to be out of work for two years while in a nursing program. And there is a local part time, evening LPN program I could get into no problem and work the whole time. I am a single mom with two kids, I support us with freelance writing right now but it's a very feast or famine existence.

Local RN programs are incredibly competitive - yes, I have good grades, but so do the hundreds of other people applying for 60 slots each year. I know people who applied several years in a row and were not accepted. One went to Keiser and graduated $80,000 in debt. (She is employed as a nurse now, though, yee-hah!)

So to do the two year RN thing I would have to borrow money for living expenses and I would graduate with massive debt. Assuming I could even borrow that much money. Believe me, I would rather just DO it and get the RN already, but I need to pay for rent, food, gas, buy the kids clothing, pay my son's hundreds of dollars of diabetes deductibles every month, pay for my health insurance, etc. - you know, those little luxuries. (yes, I get some money from their dad, plus kids health insurance, but not enough to carry me through two years of not working.)

So unfortunately I'm stuck with the slower route, unless I win the lottery.

Vent Medic does have great advice - and I have looked into the second accelerated BSN option too - the challenge there is that it is also super competitive to get into, I would need at least a year and a half's pre-req's before I could even apply, and again - I couldn't work at all for that year that I was in the program. If I didn't have kids, I'd do it - just live in a tiny sublet, sell my car, and eat ramen noodles and take the bus for a year.

I really appreciate the suggestion to do RN before paramedic, though - that seriously never occured to me as an option. I always assumed that the best thing to do would be get the paramedic cert, then decide if I wanted to get an RN on top of that. I absolutely see your point about why being an RN first would be better.

Allnurses.com - yes, you have a point. I've noticed that on every forum, the people who tend to speak up the loudest and most often are the unhappy people. And I always was able to find work as a reporter (before this latest economic crisis) so I assume I'd be able to find work as a nurse. Again - I'll move anywhere, take any position, work any shift for the first couple of years to get that experience under my belt.

Vent Medic speaks the wisdom. Listen to her.

The only good reason to do LVN before RN is if you absolutely MUST start making money in a year instead of two years. Otherwise, it is much better for your professional development to go straight to RN. Remember, the money you will be making as an LVN will not be significant. And once you are working long hours for that small pay, it's a lot harder to finish school than doing so while the student momentum is greatest.

Also, the online transition programmes are seriously overrated. They always take much longer than a traditional classroom progamme. They're usually much more expensive. They offer much less education. And the great majority of those who start them never finish them after spending many thousands of dollars on them. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Becoming an RN before a paramedic is the only intelligent way to progress. Doing the opposite is back-asswards. The best way to excel in any profession is to establish a solid educational foundation and THEN specialise, not vice versa. RN to Medic will almost always result in a more competent practitioner than Medic to RN. I say this from a LOT of experience with both.

Niftymedi911's list is about the total sum of opportunity available for non-firemonkey paramedics in Floridia. And competition in those agencies is pretty solid, because way too many people go to medic school in this state for the number of jobs available.

Conversely, I dunno what you've been reading at allnurses.com, but that's why I quit going there. You get more confusion than answers there usually. The RNs whining about not finding a job have only themselves to blame. There is no shortage of opportunity. But the universities are graduating a lot of young BSNs these days, so in many big cities, the low-experience ADNs are left with the grunt jobs that some won't take. A lot of nurses want the exciting, special care jobs, so the competition is heavy. If they can't find one, they just whine about not being able to find a job, rather than take the multitudes of Med-Surg jobs that are wide open.

If you want to work in the field, unless you get on with one of those few non-fire EMS systems that do things well, you're not going to ever see a good living wage. And the excitement you think is there usually isn't. Certainly not exciting enough to make up for the difference in money between the ambulance and the ER. I think your best bet is to focus on nursing for the short term, get some serious experience as an ICU and CCU nurse, and then transition into flight nursing. Alternatively, after some serious ER experience, there are remote medical jobs in offshore and industrial settings that are very satisfying and exciting, as well as better paying than most others.

Whatever you choose, good luck, and welcome!

Edited September 28, 2009 by Floridastudent

[VentMedic]

Have you not looked at the opportunities at hospitals? You get pay, benefits and may even find one that allows for a flexible schedule or even one with a work/learn program where you work part of the hours and attend classes the other part. Granted, it is a tight market but hospitals still offer assistance to nursing students. However, the LPN program will not be of benefit to a hospital and will not be part of this. The reason you can get into an LPN program easily is because others have seen there are few opportunities and the pay is not much more than a CNA. Often the PCTs will now do what an LPN does and the hospital will usually train you to get that cert.

[Floridastudent]

Have you not looked at the opportunities at hospitals? You get pay, benefits and may even find one that allows for a flexible schedule or even one with a work/learn program where you work part of the hours and attend classes the other part. Granted, it is a tight market but hospitals still offer assistance to nursing students. However, the LPN program will not be of benefit to a hospital and will not be part of this. The reason you can get into an LPN program easily is because others have seen there are few opportunities and the pay is not much more than a CNA. Often the PCTs will now do what an LPN does and the hospital will usually train you to get that cert.

I have not yet looked at hospitals - Just got my CPR for healthcare providers, and I test for my CNA license on Oct. 17 - but maybe if I told them I could work overnights, weekends and holidays I'd have a better chance of getting hired? I would love to work at a hospital (for now. Ultimately I'd like to be out in the field or in the emergency room.)

I know being an LPN is far from ideal. I am exploring numerous options right now, and if I could find a work/learn program at a hospital I'd be THRILLED. The one thing I really can't do, though, is go for two years straight without working, while in a super stringent nursing program. I just don't have the ability to pay rent and bills if I do that. I need to be able to work at least part time.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Floridastudent

[Dustdevil]

Great suggestion from Vent. I went to nursing school (and RT school) with several students who were working at a hospital and having their tuition paid by the hospital. You may well find such a position as a CNA. For that matter, it's not unusual to find admissions clerks and unit clerks who are nursing students too. Any of those would be ideal, as you would both be making a living AND saving money on tuition.

Another healthcare job worth looking into while going to nursing school is pharmacy technician. The training programmes are about as many hours as EMT school, but with more job openings and better working conditions.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Dustdevil

[Floridastudent]

Great suggestion from Vent. I went to nursing school (and RT school) with several students who were working at a hospital and having their tuition paid by the hospital. You may well find such a position as a CNA. For that matter, it's not unusual to find admissions clerks and unit clerks who are nursing students too. Any of those would be ideal, as you would both be making a living AND saving money on tuition.

Another healthcare job worth looking into while going to nursing school is pharmacy technician. The training programmes are about as many hours as EMT school, but with more job openings and better working conditions.

Interesting idea, being a pharmacy tech. Hadn't thought of that either. The thing with hospitals paying for nursing school, etc. - and I freely admit I am probably believing too much of what I read on allnurses.com - I get the impression that these days, 1.) It is very hard to get hired at a hospital as a CNA without experience and 2.) hospitals are less likely to pay for nursing school any more, since the nursing shortage seems to have temporarily eased. However, rather than take anyone else's word for it, as soon as I get my CNA license I'll go apply to all the local hospitals and see what happens. If all else fails - hospice, LTC, nursing homes, whoever hires me.

By the way I went and got my beloved acrylic nails taken off today - I hear that healthcare jobs and acrylic nails don't mix. I'm crushed; I had acrylic nails for about 20 years! Since I was, er, 9. Yeah, that's it.

[Dustdevil]

I get the impression that these days, 1.) It is very hard to get hired at a hospital as a CNA without experience and 2.) hospitals are less likely to pay for nursing school any more, since the nursing shortage seems to have temporarily eased.

Your chances of getting hired increase significantly if you are already in nursing school when you apply for the job. Saying you are planning to go to nursing school, and actually having been accepted and in progress are seen as two very different status. Already being accepted shows a level of commitment that isn't demonstrated by all those people who say they're going to nursing school, yet never actually get there (which includes about a third of all EMTs). So the sooner you can get your prerequisites out of the way and into RN school, the better. In fact, at that time, I would suggest going straight for BSN rather than ADN, as it will take about the same time, and you'll already be working as an LVN or CNA anyhow.

[chbare]

You need to take some of what you read on Allnurses with a grain of salt. Yes, jobs are harder to find. Surprise, our country is in a bad way economically, therefore I am perplexed why so many nurses seem to have a sense of entitlement regarding obtaining instant employment at their local hospital immediatly upon graduation. Is this the cool aid they drink in nursing school?

The truth being, the job market is tighter across the board and no profession is absolutely recession proof. With that, many nursing jobs exist; however, you may have to entertain commuting, moving, or working a less than ideal job to gain experience so you can nab your "dream" job.

Good luck and remember school is like a marathon and you need to be in it for the long haul.

Take care,

chbare.

[Floridastudent]

Your chances of getting hired increase significantly if you are already in nursing school when you apply for the job. Saying you are planning to go to nursing school, and actually having been accepted and in progress are seen as two very different status. Already being accepted shows a level of commitment that isn't demonstrated by all those people who say they're going to nursing school, yet never actually get there (which includes about a third of all EMTs). So the sooner you can get your prerequisites out of the way and into RN school, the better. In fact, at that time, I would suggest going straight for BSN rather than ADN, as it will take about the same time, and you'll already be working as an LVN or CNA anyhow.

The problem there is, I can't wait until I finish all of my prereq's to get a job - since I have about a year and a half of prereq's left. I need to get some kind of job sooner than that - CNA, EMT, something. This semester I am taking basic algebra, which I needed before I could take either biology or chemistry. (And I'm taking medical terminology just because it seemed like a good idea). Next comes biology, which I have to take before I can take A&P I and II. I also need developmental psych, probably nutrition, probably chemistry. So it's not like there's no end in sight - I just need to support myself in the meantime. Stupid bills. They just keep showing up, month after month.

[Dustdevil]

The problem there is, I can't wait until I finish all of my prereq's to get a job - since I have about a year and a half of prereq's left.

Yeah, I meant after CNA/LVN.

I've never seen a nursing school that required Gen Bio as a prereq to A&P. I'd explore your options if I were you.