Firefighters Run Over Another One

[WolfmanHarris]

I can't drive as we have a "no drive until 25" policy, which probably isn't a bad thing, but I can just picture that "oh shit" moment of running someone over running lights and sirens. I guess you couldn't really stop? You already have a duty to act on the call your headed to it would seem.

I won't go so far as to say there is no such thing as "not able to stop." There's always the unpredictable drunk driver who appeared to moving fine and crosses the center line at the last second, but really, in the vast majority of accidents, "no time to stop" is a friggin crock.

And if you hit someone, your duty is to the scene you've just created.

[Lone Star]

I can't drive as we have a "no drive until 25" policy, which probably isn't a bad thing, but I can just picture that "oh shit" moment of running someone over running lights and sirens. I guess you couldn't really stop? You already have a duty to act on the call your headed to it would seem.

You may have a 'duty to act' for the call you're heading to, but while enroute; you have a 'duty to act safely and responsibly'!

Most motor vehicle codes will allow certain 'acts' to be done while driving with lights flashing and sirens blaring, but only while 'driving with due regard to public safety' and safe operations of the motor vehicle you're piloting.

This is where the 'dead horse' thing comes in...

Most people tend to 'overvalue' their driving skills. Combine that with the misconception that lights and sirens are a GUARANTEE of right of way, and you've got a disaster just looking for a place to happen.

Unfortunately, the biggest group of people that suffer from this affliction are the newer people. Unfortunately, us 'old dogs' can't seem to get through to them, because we can't get past the "it'll never happen to me" mentality.

Guess what??? it CAN happen to YOU! Unless you (directed at those that suffer from this affliction)change your ways, it WILL happen to you!

If you "can't really stop", then you're going way too fast to be operating that ambulance in a safe manner, and exercising 'due regard' for the public safety.

Just because someone called 9-1-1, doesn't mean that we have to succumb to the 'balls to the wall' response mentality. You're not 'saving time' by driving 90 mph, and if you crack up the truck....well you're going to be NO GOOD to the patient that called......

It's THEIR 'emergency', and they need you to respond in a safe manner. The rescuer that needs to be rescued is of no value to anyone!

[capfiremedic]

"With due regard to safety and traffic"...

There you have it in a nutshell. After 36 years of operating Ambulances, Fire Apparatus and Patrol Cars, I've seen so many imbeciles behind the wheel (both civilian and official imbeciles) it makes me want to heave. Yes, we have a duty to respond, but those "seconds saved" can kill. I hammer into the heads of every member of my Department that driving like the hammers of hell does no good at all. We serve no one by becoming another response.

Yes, accidents happen. Yes, many, if not most are preventable. No one goes to work thinking "I'll kill or maim someone today". Yet, some seem hell bent on just that by their actions behind the wheel. We need to police our own and get the bad operators out of the seat. As Chief Engineer, that's one of my main jobs. Once the Academy says they're qualified, then they have to pass my tests... And the members know that I keep an eye on all responses by our apparatus.

I've worked with departments and companies that don't push operator safety at all. I'm very happy that my Chief requires it. The last thing I want to do is go to an LODD funeral. Especially one of our own making.

I'm not going to cast aspersions on the Department involved in this accident as I don't have all the information needed to make an informed decision as to what happened. And it doesn't matter if it's professional or volunteer, municipal or private.

Apparently, the investigating agency put the blame on the cyclist. But the operator of that ambulance has to live with the fact that someone is dead and he had a part in that person dying. Would you want that monkey on your back?

I sure as hell wouldn't...

[ambodriver]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/62286107.html

Web Posted: 09/27/2009 9:26 CDT

Motorcyclist killed in collision with ambulance

By Michelle Mondo

- Express-News

A 46-year-old motorcyclist was killed Sunday afternoon when he failed to yield to an ambulance en route to a call and collided with it at a North Side intersection, authorities said.

The name of the man was not released because his family had not been notified, according to authorities.

Melissa Sparks, a spokeswoman for the San Antonio Fire Department, said the crash occurred around 4 p.m. at U.S. 281 and Evans Road.

Sparks said she did not know where the ambulance was going when the crash occurred.

Officials with the San Antonio Police Department said other traffic did yield to the ambulance.

Yet again...this forum shows its ugly face and "We are better then you attitude"

We have no idea the conditons behind this accident. Maybe the medics already cleared the intersection but the motorcycle guy came up too fast too late.

And who cares if they work for a FD......I'm single role on a FD and it's fucking great. I don't need you bringing me down in your little fight for attention.

lol i just saw hold old this thread was....sorry to drudge it back up..wow

Edited May 8, 2010 by ambodriver

[funkytomtom]

Another ghost from the past! Hahaha. I think my initial post was quite vague and probably insinuated some views I don't really hold. When I said "can't stop" I wasn't referring to the brake pedal as much as to the duty to act. Which I'm still not totally clear on...are we sure about which incident would hold priority in this situation?

Anyways, I didn't mean that we drive "balls to the wall." We ALWAYS stop at an intersection before rolling through it. I lost the "won't happen to me" mentality real quick after starting to run calls. Not that I drive anyways, but just wanted to be clear that I'm not a whacker (hopefully).

[Richard B the EMT]

Perhaps the EVOC I attended was different than most, but, I operate, when in Emergency mode, in what I hope is a better manner than civilians who are on the road with me. This is not to say I am never going to be in an accident.

One thing impressed on me was to "expect the unexpected. You'll never be disappointed."

Another item is from a decades old seat belt ad on TV: "To the other guy, YOU'RE the other guy".

[mffrhorne]

You may have a 'duty to act' for the call you're heading to, but while enroute; you have a 'duty to act safely and responsibly'!

Most motor vehicle codes will allow certain 'acts' to be done while driving with lights flashing and sirens blaring, but only while 'driving with due regard to public safety' and safe operations of the motor vehicle you're piloting.

This is where the 'dead horse' thing comes in...

Most people tend to 'overvalue' their driving skills. Combine that with the misconception that lights and sirens are a GUARANTEE of right of way, and you've got a disaster just looking for a place to happen.

Unfortunately, the biggest group of people that suffer from this affliction are the newer people. Unfortunately, us 'old dogs' can't seem to get through to them, because we can't get past the "it'll never happen to me" mentality.

Guess what??? it CAN happen to YOU! Unless you (directed at those that suffer from this affliction)change your ways, it WILL happen to you!

If you "can't really stop", then you're going way too fast to be operating that ambulance in a safe manner, and exercising 'due regard' for the public safety.

Just because someone called 9-1-1, doesn't mean that we have to succumb to the 'balls to the wall' response mentality. You're not 'saving time' by driving 90 mph, and if you crack up the truck....well you're going to be NO GOOD to the patient that called......

It's THEIR 'emergency', and they need you to respond in a safe manner. The rescuer that needs to be rescued is of no value to anyone!

Lonestar

You nailed it Sir. It is indeed their emergency. Tell me how to get that one idea through to the newer folks and you will have been a tremendous help. If we are not having an emergency then there is no reason to act like we are. I still remember how some of the Old Hands seemed so blase' about emergency responses. Fortunately they were patient with me and I learned why. Some even took the time to refer me to the available analysis of how little we actually saved when running with the warning devices operating. I was really surprised at how little time was gained. Your useless if you don't get there. Would the few minutes you might have saved by taking additional risks make a difference. I cannot remember one case were the answer was yes in thirty seven years of service.

Is there a place in EMS for Dash cameras and tamper resistant recorders. If we new that every time we violated policy that we would be disciplined would that stop the carnage?

I have to say that the title of this post is unfortunate. Anyone who thinks that there are fewer problems of this kind in separate service ambulance units is living in a dream world. I've worked in both and seen it first hand.

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Tom Horne