Should the H1N1 flu vaccine be mandatory for all health care workers?

[tniuqs]

Fluffems:

Ok, so I was wrong.

Just what the F are they putting that type of crap in the shots for? Can't they put something less toxic in it?

But i suspect that dosage is so small that it causes nary a problem but why tempt it?

What next, saccharin in our soft drinks? lead in our paint, OH THE HUMANITY I'm moving to a cave in arizona.

Sodium saccharin has been proven to be a carcinogen,we are and have removed damn near all Lead from paint .... the dirt in that cave in Arizona .... has more mercury .... see the poorly copied.

Hotly debated BUT best inform yourself a tad better MYTH BUSTED !

In a statement released in December 1999(5), Canada's National Advisory Committee on Immunization recommended no change to existing infant immunization programs for three reasons:

absence of exposure (in eight provinces), or very low cumulative exposure of Canadian infants to vaccine-derived thimerosal (in two provinces and both territories where thimerosal-containing hepatitis B vaccine was, at that time, used in routine infant immunization programs*);

lack of evidence of harm from exposure to the dose of mercury in thimerosal-containing hepatitis B vaccine given to infants < 6 months age; and,

no thimerosal-free hepatitis B vaccine was licensed for use in Canada at that time

.

Mercury is a ubiquitous element in the natural environment(1). Mercury is present in soil at average concentrations between 0.05 µg/g and 0.08 µg/g of soil and 0.2 µg/L in fresh water lakes(2). Mercury vapour is present in ambient air, with concentrations in uncontaminated areas averaging < 10 ng/m3 (39). Natural sources contribute an estimated 2,700 to 6,000 tonnes per year to global emissions, compared with <= 3,000 tonnes per year from human activities(40).

Table 1 shows that the main population sources of exposure to elemental and methylmercury are dental amalgam and dietary fish, respectively(41). Organic mercury compounds occur in high concentrations in certain species of dietary fish. For example, in a survey of U.S. food market baskets conducted between 1991 and 1999 by the USFDA, canned tuna, packed in oil was reported to contain an average 0.165 µg/g of mercury(42). In the same survey, USFDA reported mean mercury concentrations of 0.070 µg/g for pan-fried haddock, 0.029 µg/g for salmon, and 0.027 µg/g for boiled shrimp.

Table 1. Estimated daily intake and retention (µg /day) of elemental and mercuric compounds in the general population not occupationally exposed to mercury*

Exposure

Elemental mercury vapour, µg /day

Inorganic

mercury compounds

µg /day

Methylmercury

µg /day

intake/retention

intake/retention

intake/retention

Air

0.030 (0.024)

0.002 (0.001)

0.008 (0.0064)

Food -fish

0

0.600 (0.042)

2.4 (2.3)

Food -non-fish

0

3.6 (0.25)

0

Drinking water

0

0.050 (0.0035)

0

Dental amalgam

3.8-21 (3-17)

0

0

Total

3.9-21 (3.1-17)

4.3 (0.3)

2.41 (2.31)

* Environmental Health Criteria 101: Methylmercury. Geneva: World Health Organization, 1990.

Sources of mercury exposure in infants

Typical dietary consumption of fish, including species mentioned above, by pregnant or lactating women, can result in fetal or infant mercury exposure far exceeding those from thimerosal-containing vaccines, since these compounds can cross the placenta and are also excreted in breast milk(10,19,31,43). The U.S. EPA estimates that 7% of U.S. women of childbearing age consume >= 0.1 µg/kg per day of mercury from fish harvested in high risk areas(44).

http://jcn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/19/6/431

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/02vol28/dr2809ea.html

This above a very good read.

Best not give a can of Tuna to your kids because there is far more mercury in that (and Lead) than in a vaccine and no more dental visits for an amalgam filling.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Damn Squint, did you not read the sarcasm in the post. I consider myself a much better mythbuster than you give me credit for.

The next thing you are going to chastise me for is my belief in Santa Claus and the truely held belief that Batman and Robin were the Dynamic Duo.

Have those been disproven too?

Edited October 28, 2009 by Ruffems

[tniuqs]

...and this just in, from the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygene:

No Ruff, sorry for missing that but so much misinformation out there right now, Ontario Paramedics have been pumped to the TOP of the list in priority delivery

Now Australia and Canada working together:

October 26, 2009

For Immediate Release

H1N1 Flu Virus: Canada Works with Australia to Ensure Early Delivery of Vaccine for Pregnant Women

(OTTAWA) – Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq and Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, Dr. David Butler-Jones, announced today that the Government of Canada had secured additional unadjuvanted H1N1 flu vaccine from Australia.

“The Government wants pregnant women across the country to have access to unadjuvanted vaccine as soon as possible,” said Minister Aglukkaq. “While our order from GSK remains on schedule, the unadjuvanted vaccine we have secured from Australia will be available ahead of the GSK order.”The Minister thanked both manufacturer CSL Australia and the Australian Government for their cooperation and underscored that pregnant women remain a priority group for vaccination.“The Government of Canada has purchased 200,000 doses of unadjuvanted H1N1 vaccine from manufacturer CSL Australia,” stated Dr. Butler-Jones. “Barring any distribution delays, the vaccine will be available to the provinces and territories as early as the first week of November.”

This vaccine has been approved for use in Australia and the United States. Canada has authorized access to Australia's unadjuvanted vaccine to ensure that pregnant women in Canada would have access to an unadjuvanted vaccine on a timely basis. The GSK vaccine is still on target for delivery in early November, however given the increase in cases of H1N1 flu across the country, this purchase from Australia will allow for earlier access to the unadjuvanted vaccine.

Women more than 20 weeks pregnant, and women in earlier stages of pregnancy with risk factors for severe disease, should consider getting the adjuvanted vaccine until the unadjuvanted vaccine is available.An adjuvant is a substance that is added to a vaccine to improve immune response. In the case of the H1N1 flu vaccine, the adjuvant includes naturally occurring oil, water and vitamin E. All evidence suggests that adjuvanted vaccines are just as safe as unadjuvanted vaccines; however adjuvanted vaccines have not been widely tested in pregnant women. The World Health Organization has recommended that pregnant women receive unadjuvanted vaccine where possible, but adjuvanted vaccine could be used if necessary.

Boy's H1N1 death should be lesson to parents: dad

Updated: Tue Oct. 27 2009 17:15:30

The Canadian Press

The swine-flu death of an otherwise healthy hockey-playing teen came without warning and should serve as a lesson to parents to keep a close eye on their ill children, the boy's grief-stricken father said Tuesday.Paul Frustaglio said it took barely more than a day for the H1N1 flu virus to kill Evan -- his "best friend" -- who turned 13 last month, a fatality that public health officials called rare."He fell so quickly," Frustaglio told The Canadian Press. "I was watching him. I was there when he died." Evan's death Monday came on the same day health authorities across Canada began rolling out a vaccination program against H1N1.The teen would not have been considered a priority for the flu shot because he wasn't in a high-risk group.The Grade 8 student began feeling ill over the weekend during a hockey tournament. His symptoms included fever and some vomiting.His dad took him to a walk-in clinic on Sunday afternoon, where he was seen and sent home with advice to take over-the-counter medication.The family felt confident it was a simple case of flu that would soon pass.That seemed to be happening. By Monday morning, his fever had broken and he was no longer nauseated. The family thought he was on the mend.

Evan asked to take a bath. Ten minutes later, as his horrified father watched, he suddenly went limp.His father tried CPR as paramedics rushed to the west-end home."They worked on my son feverishly for over two hours," Frustaglio said. "His heart wasn't responding. The disease had taken over his heart." The tragedy follows the death Saturday of a 10-year-old eastern Ontario girl from H1N1. Vanetia Warner of Cornwall, Ont., was sick for several days before her condition rapidly deteriorated. She died Saturday in Ottawa. It was not immediately known if she had any underlying medical conditions. The swine flu has now killed close to 100 people across Canada. Ontario has had close to 30 deaths, six of them children, since April. Three more deaths in British Columbia over the past week raised that province's total to 12.Most victims -- about 90 per cent -- had underlying health conditions."Death is a rare event, and it's a particularly rare event in young people," said Dr. Arlene King, Ontario's medical officer of health.Why the same strain of virus can cause mild symptoms in one healthy person and be lethal in another is a mystery, although its newness may be a factor. "We don't have all of the answers," King said. "The key thing for all of us is to try to prevent ourselves from getting infected to begin with."

Dr. David McKeown, Toronto's medical officer of health, said Evan had "mild asthma," something his father disputed.

"Evan didn't have asthma; he had been prescribed puffers a few years ago when he had a cold," Frustaglio said.

A spokeswoman for Toronto public health later said the boy did not have asthma and the earlier statement had resulted from some confusion concerning his medical records.Mary Margaret Crapper said Evan had no underlying health issues that public health was aware of.Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty expressed sympathy for the family, calling it a "terrible tragedy." The province, he said, was doing everything it could to provide a vaccination program as quickly as possible. "I continue to have confidence in our public health officials," McGuinty said."They're making the right decisions, getting the vaccine into the communities as quickly as they can and respecting the order of priorities that they've put in place."Frustaglio refused to criticize the walk-in clinic, saying he was in too much grief to think about what might have been done differently. However, he did warn parents against complacency or thinking that patients with swine flu will show symptoms for many days before deteriorating gradually."This didn't even take a day and a half -- it hit my son within 10 minutes," he said. "If any one of your children has any kind of flu-like symptoms, please don't take your eyes off of them. Make sure you get the medical attention you need and, if at any time, they don't seem right, especially with their breathing, just get medical attention." Evan's family began taking Tamiflu after his death as a precaution and immediately informed Evan's teammates of what had happened so they, too, could seek medical attention.Evan is survived by his brother Will, 10, and his mom, Anne-Marie, who was too distressed to speak about her loss."I'm really having a hard time with this," she said. Ontario Health Minister Deb Matthews said the "very sad case" should impress on people the need to get inoculated. "It doesn't protect just you, it protects all the people around you," Matthews said. Evans' death sparked an outpouring of sympathy and tributes on Facebook and YouTube, with numerous pictures and even a tribute video. One Facebook writer said she hoped the tragedy would heighten awareness of the dangers of H1N1."I feel for your loss; my heart aches for your sorrow," Tracey Parr wrote."Hope Evan's passing will heighten the awareness of this flu, and preventative measures needed to be taken." Frustaglio called Evan a "wonderful" boy who was "full of spirit." His son had switched this year to the Hill Academy north of Toronto -- a small school with an emphasis on athletics -- because "it was all about hockey." "My son is gone. He was here just 24 hours ago and now he's not here. He was 13. He didn't deserve to die," he said."Whenever you hear stories like this in the press, I say to myself, 'Oh my god, I can never imagine how I could ever live without one of my kids,' and now I'm asking myself that question."

I am not trying to cause a panic or cry Wolf .... but if just one parent reads these posts and just one person changes there mind .... then I will be very happy.

Right now there is more posts concerning the very poor TV Trauma show ..... shame on us really.

[aussiephil]

No Ruff, sorry for missing that but so much misinformation out there right now, Ontario Paramedics have been pumped to the TOP of the list in priority delivery

Now Australia and Canada working together:

October 26, 2009

For Immediate Release

I am not trying to cause a panic or cry Wolf .... but if just one parent reads these posts and just one person changes there mind .... then I will be very happy.

Right now there is more posts concerning the very poor TV Trauma show ..... shame on us really.

Here here. Is it that people are to ill informed to make comment, or just to arrogant to think that it wont happen to them?

[kevkei]

Got them today for family and myself. After doing my own research and considering the medical and ethical aspects of it, came to the conclusion that there lacks credible evidence to support not getting it.

One thing to consider, it is almost pointless for a single member of a family to get it. If one person is going to, everyone should otherwise there is no point in getting it at all. With the H1N1 vaccine, you are less likely to act as a vector (carrier) and cross contaminate (read, bring it home with you.)

What concerns me about H1N1 is it's effects and severity on young healthy people and the severity of illness which is disproportionate to the regular seasonal influenza (Influenza 'A' strains).

I'm surprised by the lack of knowledge and understanding as well as the lack of consideration of strong and/or credible evidence but instead people will readily accept information from myth's or special interest groups.

tniuqs, I hope you feel better soon.

[tniuqs]

Got them today for family and myself. After doing my own research and considering the medical and ethical aspects of it, came to the conclusion that there lacks credible evidence to support not getting it.

One thing to consider, it is almost pointless for a single member of a family to get it. If one person is going to, everyone should otherwise there is no point in getting it at all. With the H1N1 vaccine, you are less likely to act as a vector (carrier) and cross contaminate (read, bring it home with you.)

What concerns me about H1N1 is it's effects and severity on young healthy people and the severity of illness which is disproportionate to the regular seasonal influenza (Influenza 'A' strains).

I'm surprised by the lack of knowledge and understanding as well as the lack of consideration of strong and/or credible evidence but instead people will readily accept information from myth's or special interest groups.

tniuqs, I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks crackers taste SOO good today ... great points from a highly respected Paramedic !

OK more interesting info, you think that "antibacterial hand wash works to kill virus " this from a toxicologist

In short, No. The majority of anti-bacterial hand soaps, anti-microbial hand soaps and anti-bacterial hand gels are not formulated for virus kill. Triclosan and PCMX are the main actives in most anti-bacterial hand soaps, and neither one of these chemicals are capable of doing anything to viruses. Ethyl Alcohol is the main active in hand sanitizing gels, and it is only efficacious at killing microbes, and not even all microbes for that matter.

There are several things that can handle viral loads, which would be compounds such as Na Hypochlorite, however it is not really all that feasible to put such a component into a hand gel or hand soap.

<edit Bleach>

Currently many companies such as P&G, Ecolab, Johnson and Johnson and SC Johnson are working very diligently on formulating hand care products that will be efficacious in not only anti-viral applications, but also in biofilm applications as well.

There are some industrial products that have anti-viral and anti-biofilm capabilities, but they are mostly limited to the medical, science and chemical fields.

[tniuqs]

Front-line emergency workers in Calgary will not get to the front of the queue for H1N1 vaccinations, despite claims from the union it would shorten lines at public clinics. Head of the paramedics' union, Rick Fraser, said it is frustrating that, unlike in years past with regular flu vaccines, crews are not able to administer H1N1 shots to their own crews as well as police and firefighters.

<INSERT WTF> Rick you need a way bigger stick !

It would be a way for front-line emergency crews to bypass long wait times and see less people in the already lengthy lineups."We've done it in the past, I'm curious why we are not doing it now," said Fraser, CUPE 3421 president. He said a request has gone to health officials to see medics administer shots to police, fire and their own crews. Alberta Health and Wellness spokesman Howard May confirmed deputy health minister Linda Miller received a letter from medics yesterday.

"We are considering it," he said.

<INSERT WTF> FIRE HER ASS IMMEDIATELY BASED ON STUPIDITY ! I am composing a letter immediately after finding this news release.

Calgary Police Association president John Dooks said the CPS made inquiries to the province to get the vaccine to administer themselves but have been refused."I am really disappointed emergency workers in general have not been identified as a priority for immunization because if a strain hits them and medics and police and fire were pulled away from their duties it could be disastrous," Dooks said.

Dooks said the CPS has health-care workers on staff trained to administer shots.Alberta Health Services officials said front-line medical staff, including paramedics and EMTs, can get vaccines in hospital -- an option which does not apply to cops or firefighters.

Yea great idea ... expose them all to H1N1 in the waiting rooms with a double increase in visits.

A conservative estimate shows about half of the city's 1,250 firefighters are interested in getting H1N1 vaccines, say fire officials. "At this point, both firefighters and police officers who want to have it, have to wait in lines like everyone else," said Deputy chief Ken Uzeloc.

I have nothing to say I am flabbergasted with the stupidity by Calgary Officials and not following Toronto's Lead nor advice from HEALTH CANADA .... I can't decide if I am angrier or more embarrassed ....

[Siffaliss]

Why can't crews give swiney shots to other EMS, fire, police? Last year for what I think was a few weeks in a row, we had paramedics taken off the road (voluntarily) to do a flu clinic in our central station for us. Way better than standing in line for 3 hours (or 8). They're obviously competant at giving IM shots and obviously have permission from the medical director. What's the big deal? Saves time.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Siffaliss

[tniuqs]

Why can't crews give swiney shots to other EMS, fire, police? Last year for what I think was a few weeks in a row, we had paramedics taken off the road (voluntarily) to do a flu clinic in our central station for us. Way better than standing in line for 3 hours (or 8). They're obviously competant at giving IM shots and obviously have permission from the medical director. What's the big deal? Saves time.

Well what an intelligent concept just how hard is it ? To be trained EMT or Paramedic to write down a name, take a quick PMHX and an IM shot .... So Agreed Siffalass .... Rick is returning my call .....

So lets get all the First Responders, in the hospitals were there is double than normal visits (or amass the public in malls waiting for hours) to get the vaccine, as I have stated its Highly likely that I have H1N1 my brother just returned from traveling over seas ... and I visited an ER where the MD was not wearing PPE and I watched him see 3 patients in 15 minute (no hand washing) OMG.

I wish to extend an invite:

Linda Miller, Howard May, Mr. Liepert, Dr. Druckman and our Lord Stelmach would to like come and visit me at my home ... I am serving tea and cookies, and I somewhere I lost the bar of soap.

Perhaps a history lesson on Spanish flu would be in order too, with leadership like this we should be hoping that history does not repeat itself ... oh wait that does happen ... I hope I am soo soo wrong.

BTW the Edmonton Eskimos and the Oilers and the Calgary Flames have been inoculated .... nah there is no cue jumping in Alberta !

Spare Versed or Ativan donations accepted ...

cheers

Edited October 29, 2009 by tniuqs

[HERBIE1]

Why can't crews give swiney shots to other EMS, fire, police? Last year for what I think was a few weeks in a row, we had paramedics taken off the road (voluntarily) to do a flu clinic in our central station for us. Way better than standing in line for 3 hours (or 8). They're obviously competant at giving IM shots and obviously have permission from the medical director. What's the big deal? Saves time.

Agreed, but as the saying goes, common sense is not very common.

There are some here who feel you need about 12 years of education to perform that task. Never mind the fact that medical assistants with a fraction of the training we have have been approved to do it.