Should the H1N1 flu vaccine be mandatory for all health care workers?

[shac 7313]

in ny its mandatory my company westchester ems ( stellaris healthcare) is giving us the vaccine oct,nov

[DwayneEMTP]

Jenny Mcarthy...Grrrrrr...how can anyone that looks so good naked be such an idiot?? It's a crime...

Thanks HERBIE1 for the info. But that raises another question. The N1H1 vaccine has only been in testing since August, but aren't all flu vaccines developed, tested and despensed in the 11th hour? Isn't that kind of the nature of the the flu vaccines?

I have no time of late to research anything, so I'll just talk off of the top of my head. But I thought that the majority, if not all of influenzas started in, China I think? And then are spread around China by water foul until it starts to spread more globally via migrating birds, and people. So...It seems that we 'normally' have a fairly reliable timeline for dispersal of the illness and thus an approximate target date for development, testing and delivery of the vaccine. Development in the summer, testing in the late summer/fall, delivery in the winter.

Not sure of the accuracy of these thoughts, but other than the hysteria surrounding H1N1, is the development, testing and delivery schedule of this vaccine really that different from those that have come before?

Dwayne

First edit to because I forgot to left orient, second edit because I forgot to explain my edits. No other changes made.

Edited October 4, 2009 by DwayneEMTP

[VentMedic]

[i have no time of late to research anything, so I'll just talk off of the top of my head. But I thought that the majority, if not all of influenzas started in, China I think?

Here's a report on how a vaccine and its effectiveness is determined. For last year's flu season, the vaccine was considered less effective against some strains but the antiviral meds helped with the severity. This year we are seeing a strain that is also resistant to the antivirals.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5715a4.htm

The references linked at the end of the article are also worth reading.

2003 was also another controversial year for the flu vaccine, where it was also considered a "miss" by the stats from that season. I remember that year because of Pres. Bush's big production of getting the smallpox vaccine. Many of us were actually in favor of getting the smallpox vaccine since we were made to get it at age 5 just prior to starting 1st grade. Several years later few were thought to have immunity in the U.S. after several years had passed since the last vaccination for smallpox was in 1972. BTW, many health care workers did not get the smallpox vaccine during 2003-2004 as it was not made mandatory as it had been many years ago. Also the vaccine offered in 2003 for smallpox and the one the Pres. was recommending did pose some serious complications and the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices called for the U.S. to reconsider giving the vaccinations.

Since health care workers do care for those with complications, they may see and hear more about the complications than most. That issue has been mentioned in New York (back to my original post starting this thread). However, HCWs also have first hand knowledge of what the disease itself can do. Neither appear to be a good choice especially after you have reached an age where you are aware your body may not act as it did at 20. This is why some are hesitant to get the vaccines.

We could also continue with the controversy that has been presented with the childhood vaccines. Even if the percentage is relatively small, it is still there enough for the "what if" factor. People prefer to control what they know or think they know.

But then this could lead us to a discussion about HIV. How many know the precautions but yet still engage in activities without any protection or even any thought of the virus? Would a vaccine make a difference if other precautions are cast aside?

For the flu, I believe one of the biggest factors in lower numbers is the awareness. It gets people to be considerate when they cough and was their hands for a few weeks.

[ERDoc]

So, to add to this conversation. It looks like there is some good news and bad new out about H1N1. It looks like it is starting to come back (with a vengence perhaps).

Total influenza hospitalization rates for laboratory-confirmed influenza are higher than expected for this time of year for adults and children. And for children 5-17 and adults 18-49 years of age, hospitalization rates from April – October 2009 exceed average flu season rates (for October through April).

The proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) based on the 122 Cities Report has increased and now exceeds what is normally expected at this time of year. In addition, 19 flu-related pediatric deaths were reported this week; 16 of these deaths were confirmed 2009 H1N1 and 3 were unsubtyped influenza A and likely to be 2009 H1N1. A total of 76 laboratory confirmed 2009 H1N1 pediatric deaths have been reported to CDC since April.

The good news is:

Almost all of the influenza viruses identified so far are 2009 H1N1 influenza A viruses. These viruses remain similar to the virus chosen for the 2009 H1N1 vaccine, and remain susceptible to the antiviral drugs oseltamivir and zanamivir with rare exception.

This is taken from http://cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

Though I don't think the immunization should be mandatory, I will be getting mine, as will my family.

[Richard B the EMT]

Jenny Mcarthy...Grrrrrr...how can anyone that looks so good naked be such an idiot?? It's a crime...

It matters not for male or female, as there will always be those who look good and are smart, look good and are emphatically NOT smart, DON'T look good and are smart, and those who DON'T look good, and are emphatically NOT smart.

Someone will advise me if I'm quoting Winston Churchill or George Bernard Shaw, but, allegedly, he was approached by a good looking "airhead" of the era, who suggested they mate. Her theory was, the child would inherit her good looks, and his brains.

He responded, "Madam, what if the child inherits MY looks and YOUR brains?"

[HERBIE1]

Here's a report on how a vaccine and its effectiveness is determined. For last year's flu season, the vaccine was considered less effective against some strains but the antiviral meds helped with the severity. This year we are seeing a strain that is also resistant to the antivirals.

http://www.cdc.gov/m...ml/mm5715a4.htm

The references linked at the end of the article are also worth reading.

2003 was also another controversial year for the flu vaccine, where it was also considered a "miss" by the stats from that season. I remember that year because of Pres. Bush's big production of getting the smallpox vaccine. Many of us were actually in favor of getting the smallpox vaccine since we were made to get it at age 5 just prior to starting 1st grade. Several years later few were thought to have immunity in the U.S. after several years had passed since the last vaccination for smallpox was in 1972. BTW, many health care workers did not get the smallpox vaccine during 2003-2004 as it was not made mandatory as it had been many years ago. Also the vaccine offered in 2003 for smallpox and the one the Pres. was recommending did pose some serious complications and the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices called for the U.S. to reconsider giving the vaccinations.

Since health care workers do care for those with complications, they may see and hear more about the complications than most. That issue has been mentioned in New York (back to my original post starting this thread). However, HCWs also have first hand knowledge of what the disease itself can do. Neither appear to be a good choice especially after you have reached an age where you are aware your body may not act as it did at 20. This is why some are hesitant to get the vaccines.

We could also continue with the controversy that has been presented with the childhood vaccines. Even if the percentage is relatively small, it is still there enough for the "what if" factor. People prefer to control what they know or think they know.

But then this could lead us to a discussion about HIV. How many know the precautions but yet still engage in activities without any protection or even any thought of the virus? Would a vaccine make a difference if other precautions are cast aside?

For the flu, I believe one of the biggest factors in lower numbers is the awareness. It gets people to be considerate when they cough and was their hands for a few weeks.

From what I gather, this amount of time from testing to vaccination is not unusual- it's pretty standard when dealing with the annual flu shots. It makes sense- they want to wait until the last possible minute to ensure they are using the correct strain of the virus.

That's fine, except when you start throwing around the term "mandatory"- that's when I get nervous.

So, to add to this conversation. It looks like there is some good news and bad new out about H1N1. It looks like it is starting to come back (with a vengence perhaps).

Total influenza hospitalization rates for laboratory-confirmed influenza are higher than expected for this time of year for adults and children. And for children 5-17 and adults 18-49 years of age, hospitalization rates from April – October 2009 exceed average flu season rates (for October through April).

The proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) based on the 122 Cities Report has increased and now exceeds what is normally expected at this time of year. In addition, 19 flu-related pediatric deaths were reported this week; 16 of these deaths were confirmed 2009 H1N1 and 3 were unsubtyped influenza A and likely to be 2009 H1N1. A total of 76 laboratory confirmed 2009 H1N1 pediatric deaths have been reported to CDC since April.

The good news is:

Almost all of the influenza viruses identified so far are 2009 H1N1 influenza A viruses. These viruses remain similar to the virus chosen for the 2009 H1N1 vaccine, and remain susceptible to the antiviral drugs oseltamivir and zanamivir with rare exception.

This is taken from http://cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

Though I don't think the immunization should be mandatory, I will be getting mine, as will my family.

My kids are scheduled to see their doc this week, and I will be asking for her recommendation on this. My wife will be getting one(she's already had the seasonal shot)- she has asthma, and one of the kids is borderline. If the doc suggests it for them, I trust her opinion. As for me- I still see no compelling evidence for me to get one, but that may change.

[kevkei]

Whatever happened to looking at key indicators such as risk vs benefit, safety and efficacy? My answer is no. The educated person should be able to make their own decision, not be forced to get something that hasn't been found to be either safe or effective.

[Redcell19512]

I got my H1N1 vaccine 4 days ago and I've become the subject of a lot of jokes at work. Every time I cough, sneeze, or blow my nose someone, somewhere, shouts "swine flu!!!” The anti-vaccine crowd at work seems to take pleasure in telling me how stupid I was to get this vaccine. I hear the same thing about the seasonal flu vaccine every year as well. These same people chose to get vaccinated against Hepatitis B. I'm wondering why? Why did they feel that vaccine was safe but not the H1N1 or seasonal influenza vaccine? These same people have no problem getting a Tetanus booster after an injury or before surgery. Why aren't they afraid of that vaccine?

One of my co-workers has refused to vaccinate her children for anything. She used the varicella vaccine to prove her point saying that kids used to get chicken pox all the time and nothing bad ever happened to them. As a person who not only had chicken pox but shingles as well I was sure to let her know that if her kids ever got shingles they'd be hunting her down and kicking her a## for the pain she put them through by not vaccinating them against varicella. Does it surprise you that this woman had no idea that chicken pox and shingles were related? So the decision to not vaccinate her children was an educated one?

[crotchitymedic1986]

Just a few facts to consider: 1. The experts fear a pandemic, this is not the "normal" flu. 2. We will probably double the number of flu deaths this year (if we are lucky) as the regular flu will kill it's regular numbers, and then H1N1 will wipe out some portion of the population (probably more pediatric). 3. The flu vaccine has been safely produced for over 60 years, with a change in the flu-shot almost every single year, as the strains change. 4. In 1976 there was an aberrance where alot of people died after receiving the flu shot, because something happened that triggered guilam-beret in those patients (experts argue if it was the flu or the flu shot, but if you want to blame the shot, then there was one year out of 60 when the flu shot was bad, but has not reoccurred in the 33 years that followed). 5. Had many of us taken the same opinion on smallpox or polio vaccines, it would never had been irradicated, and we would still be dealing with it.

A coworker of mine caught the swine-flu from one of his children, as did everyone in his family. How would you feel if you learned it was you who was the carrier that brought home swine flu, which resulted in the death of one of your children ? I don't like the word MANDATORY any more than anyone else, but in some ways we are starting to sound like the dumb redneck that is always on the news before the Category 5 Hurricane is about to hit, who says "hell no i ain't evacuuuuaaatttin, i gots to protect my stuff".

Edited October 22, 2009 by crotchitymedic1986

[spenac]

Can someone list all ingredients of the vaccine?