Can Fire Paramedics be good Paramedics?

[spenac]

In response to Ruff and for us to air our opinions here is my reason that I for the most part oppose fire based Paramedics.

In the illustration Ruff gave the fire Paramedics were strictly working on the ambulance, fine that allows them to be focused health care providers. But when forced to be multitaskers it is hard to believe they can be the best when divided, ie jack of all trades master of none. Also the Paramedic that is forced to fight fire may just do the minimum because their heart is not in fire and the fire fighter that is forced to be a Paramedic may as well. I also get frustrated when I see so many fire services just raping EMS by taking the money brought in by EMS and instead of making more improvements on EMS they spend it on more fire toys. Another gripe has been seeing the fire services and the fire union actually stand in the way of advancement in EMS.

OK that is just a start of this topic look forward to a peaceful discussion.

[FireMedic65]

I guess people just like to stir up the bees nest and start a feud. Haven't we debated this more than enough?

In my opinion, the individual is what makes them a good provider, not whom they work for. Regardless of it's a fire department, or straight EMS. It's ultimately up to the provider. Higher ups can put mandatory training and what not, but if the provider just isn't into it, they probably won't be good at what they do. I know a firefighter, career firefighter, whom is also a paramedic, a flight medic at that. He is a very good paramedic, and holds is a LT for the fire department where he works for. I also know paramedics who do nothing but EMS, and they suck.

It's a bit stereotypical to think a firefighter can't be a good paramedic, just because they are a firefighter.

[Eric]

I'm with firemedic66 on this bring something that should have die a long time ago now it will die a 1,000 more deaths

[Just Plain Ruff]

It's a bit stereotypical to think a firefighter can't be a good paramedic, just because they are a firefighter.

But that is some of the posters thought process here.

My opinion only, you can be a good paramedic and a good firefighter both at the same time.

It's all in how you apply yourself. If you put your effort into being a good provider and you are truly in it for the patient care then you can be a good paramedic as well as a firefighter.

Unfortunately, fire departments are running fewer and fewer fire calls and more and more ambulance calls or calls for EMS. If your service is fire/ems (medic level) then your medics should be invested in providing good care. If they are not vested in good patient care then put them on a hook and ladder truck and let them eat smoke.

Likewise if a firefighter is not invested in good firefighting then put them on a desk.

I want to be sure of a couple of things when I call 911

1. My police are trained to do law enforcement

2. my fire fighters are trained to cut me out of my car and also to put my house out when it's on fire

3. When I'm hurt I expect my paramedics to be able to treat me appropriately and effectively.

I do believe that you can do both.

[Mateo_1387]

In response to Ruff and for us to air our opinions here is my reason that I for the most part oppose fire based Paramedics.

In the illustration Ruff gave the fire Paramedics were strictly working on the ambulance, fine that allows them to be focused health care providers. But when forced to be multitaskers it is hard to believe they can be the best when divided, ie jack of all trades master of none. Also the Paramedic that is forced to fight fire may just do the minimum because their heart is not in fire and the fire fighter that is forced to be a Paramedic may as well. I also get frustrated when I see so many fire services just raping EMS by taking the money brought in by EMS and instead of making more improvements on EMS they spend it on more fire toys. Another gripe has been seeing the fire services and the fire union actually stand in the way of advancement in EMS.

OK that is just a start of this topic look forward to a peaceful discussion.

What ever happened to searching the plethora of discussions we've already had about this?

[EMT City Administrator]

Please keep it on topic. Almost 1/2 of the posts so far here have nothing to do with the topic presented.

I will be keeping an eye on this one.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Please keep it on topic. Almost 1/2 of the posts so far here have nothing to do with the topic presented.

I will be keeping an eye on this one.

True Admin

I never meant for this to be it's own topic, but it is now.

Yes, please don't muddy this discussion with personal animosity and preconceived notions.

[aussiephil]

My opinion only, you can be a good paramedic and a good firefighter both at the same time.

Ruff, I do respect you mate but this is BS. Why do we insist on allowing Fire to try & control us? Its cause they havent got enough of their core business to keep them occupied.

I want to be sure of a couple of things when I call 911

1. My police are trained to do law enforcement

2. my fire fighters are trained to cut me out of my car and also to put my house out when it's on fire

3. When I'm hurt I expect my paramedics to be able to treat me appropriately and effectively.

Now you have said a couple of interesting things here. The three statments you have made do not indicate you favour dual roles such as fire paramedic. We should have all services seperate. Dont allow fire to administer, run or have anything to do with EMS & watch them fall over with funding issues.

We dont see Police EMS (for general EMS, not specialty trained tactical) do we? So why is there a mentality that fire & EMS should be bundled together?

[spenac]

Ruff, I do respect you mate but this is BS. Why do we insist on allowing Fire to try & control us? Its cause they havent got enough of their core business to keep them occupied.

Now you have said a couple of interesting things here. The three statments you have made do not indicate you favour dual roles such as fire paramedic. We should have all services seperate. Dont allow fire to administer, run or have anything to do with EMS & watch them fall over with funding issues.

We dont see Police EMS (for general EMS, not specialty trained tactical) do we? So why is there a mentality that fire & EMS should be bundled together?

Actually we do have some areas of the USA that do have police based EMS. They are dual role just like fire based.

And admin thanks for trying to keep it on track.

[Lone Star]

I'd like to make a couple of points here:

We dont see Police EMS (for general EMS, not specialty trained tactical) do we? So why is there a mentality that fire & EMS should be bundled together?

Most counties in Michigan (don't know about other states) have a 'Paramedic Division' with the county Sheriff's Department.

I have never bought into this 'you can't do more than one thing and be good at it' mentality.

Let's be brutally honest here:

Municipal Fire/EMS services have different operational/equipment needs. Fire trucks tend to 'wear out' faster than ambulances just by their design and function. The strain that the pump on a fire truck puts on the engine is equivalent of driving it at 55 mph down the expressway. Thats only if you don't pump more than 100 psi.

Then we have the whole stress on the frame/suspension due to the fact that there's somewhere between 500-2500 gallons of water on board at all times. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon, so we're looking at an extra 4,000-20,000 pounds of weight (on top of the vehicle weight, equipment and personnel). Then factor in that the water doesn't 'stay put', even with a 'baffle system' in the holding tank. This exerts twisting/flexing actions on the frame just by trying to take off, stop or turn.

I could see all the 'Fire is raping EMS' garbage if the fire department was driving the top of the line equipment (brand new every other year), while EMS is still stuck in the old Caddillac hearses! Both 'arguements' are more based on personal opinion than on fact, and both have been worn out long ago!