Can Fire Paramedics be good Paramedics?

[46Young]

Can it happen?

Sure.

It is rare, especially when the FDs have close relationships with the Medic Mills, and require new hires to have their Medic cert/license in an unreasonably short amount of time.

Now, making Medic an option, rather then a mandate is a start.

Further, until EMS makes the living and working conditions and compensation better, EMS only services will continue to loose people at an alarming rate.

Who wants to sit on street corners all day/night, eating fast food, and maybe laying down on the cot, when they could be relaxing at a station, eating home cooked meals, relaxing in a recliner, and sleeping at night?

How about the benefits, lack of pension, and poor equipment?

I work EMS only right now, as an MICP in South Jersey.

I also hold certification as a FFI, and licensure as Paramedic in Fla. I am there right now, applying to FDs.

I want something to show for my years of service.

I want to sleep at night.

I want a day off.

Yeah, pretty much. Except for relaxing, as we keep pretty busy during the day. We average 1-2 runs after 2200 hrs. Sometimes we sleep all night, sometimes we run all night. On average, I get 4-6 hours sleep at my station. I got tired of doing the street corner thing as well. You'll need an increase in educational standards to see any real change, and organization by the industry as a whole.

Hospital based EMS seems to have the best salary, benefits, working conditions and retention, though.

Nothing's stopping you from applying to Fairfax, Prince William, Montgomery, Howard, or anne Arundel Counties in the NOVA/MD/DC area. As long as you're NatReg.

Edited October 5, 2009 by 46Young

[46Young]

There are good third service agencies out there, but burnout due to poor pay and working conditions seem to be more the rule than the exception. the industry does seem to eat it's young. Plenty of strong EMT's/medics in these agencies, but burnout gets a good number of them sooner or later.

NSLIJ CEMS does NYC 911 as well as good IFT/CC. There are plenty of well rounded medics there, able to do it all with the requisite knowledge base. If not for lack of a pension and job security, I'd still be there rather than looking out of state for a more secure deal.

Increased educational standards are sorely needed to make the profession an actual profession, with job satisfaction and a high rate of retention, rather than a transient job for many while looking for a better deal. Until then we can only hope to get on with a decent agency, and not some fly by night operation.

[Flasurfbum]

Hospital based EMS seems to have the best salary, benefits, working conditions and retention, though.

Nothing's stopping you from applying to Fairfax, Prince William, Montgomery, Howard, or anne Arundel Counties in the NOVA/MD/DC area. As long as you're NatReg.

They pay really isn't bad at all. In fact, IIRC, we are one of the highest paid in the area, if not state. Some of our quarters are pretty nice, others, well, they leave a lot to be desired. However, checking out a SUV or Rescue body truck in the rain/snow/cold/wind really blows.

I've thought about that area.

But the prospect of cold, somehow, just dont rub me the right way.

[46Young]

They pay really isn't bad at all. In fact, IIRC, we are one of the highest paid in the area, if not state. Some of our quarters are pretty nice, others, well, they leave a lot to be desired. However, checking out a SUV or Rescue body truck in the rain/snow/cold/wind really blows.

I've thought about that area.

But the prospect of cold, somehow, just dont rub me the right way.

We get like an inch of snow if we're lucky. It gets cold a little later and warm a little earlier than NY (where I'm from).

Just so you know, I'm making around 67-69 grand base + cert pay + riding pay, and I'm on track to make between 85-90k this year. I'm not killing myself either. Here in Stafford County, I'm only 35 minutes from my station, and around an hour tops from the farthest stations. My medic officer, who's a Capt I, makes exactly double my hourly (topped out), making over 120k after incentives, before OT. 1400-1500 sf Starter homes in our area go for upper 100k's to low 200k, low crime, great schools, large proportion of military and gov't workers. Unreal.

I'm only 4-5 hours from the OBX and about the same for Long Beach, Jones West End 2, or Robert Moses on LI, my favorite breaks. Much closer for LBI also.

[FormerEMSLT297]

Scott33,,,,,,, Having worked and lived in Nassau County for 14 years, I will tell you IMHO Massau County Police, I one of the most backwards ways of doing EMS in the Country. He is why:

A single, non-police officer Paramedic or EMT-CC, rides around ALONE, in an Ambulance. (Which bascially means you have to drive all the time, even when you do not feel like driving today, and conversly you need to always be to one t provide patient care, and you do not even have a medic partner t bunce ideas off of.)

When a call comes in, s/he drives to the scen, and then provides patient care, AT LEAST 2 other POLICE Officers,, whom the cunty pays an average of 90-100K per year then drives to the scene.

3 people, including 2 LEO's are now tied up providing EMS. If the patient is critical, the 2 officers, who, while they get trained as EMT's, may or may not have any real skill, or interest in doing EMS now need to drive the amb. to the hospital, and the other assist with patient care.

The officers who are driving are now tied up, waiting for the ambulance to pass off the patient and clean up n the ED.

Or, worse, they send a second Ambulance, tying up a another medic, and knocking a transport unit off service.

This does not even get into the dual response sytem of FD and PD both sending units, to calls, and tieng up multiple resources, etc.

The Nassau Protocols, had Pain meds authorized for 10 years or more, but they have yet to put them on the street.

If Nassau Wanted to do it correctly, they would put 2 medics, or a EMT and Medic on each unit, and eliminate the cops driving.

There are however systems in Minnesota, Michigan, and Utah that using cops, as both LE and Medics.

This might make PERFECT sense for areas that are very remote and do not have alot of LE or Medical calls going on, but then the better keep up their medcal skills with a lot of CME, or training so the do not get STALE.

below are some examples:

http://www.cottage-grove.org/ems.htm

http://www.ingham.org/pe/Job%20Descriptions/SHERIFF'S%20DEPT/Field%20Services%20Division/PoliceOfficer.pdf

http://www.daviscountyutah.gov/oopm/job_posting/job_posting_public.cfm?job_posting_id=5

Cop shoots then saves suspect: I think this is also Michigan, as Flint is mentioned .

http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2007/11/paramedic_shoots_then_saves_ro.html

Tha is not to say however that the Nassau County Paramedics are some very good providers, and they are dedicated to their jobs. It's just that as a SYSTEM, they are not a really good model. IMHO.

Edited October 17, 2009 by FormerEMSLT297

[Lone Star]

Cop shoots then saves suspect: I think this is also Michigan, as Flint is mentioned .

http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2007/11/paramedic_shoots_then_saves_ro.html

Tha is not to say however that the Nassau County Paramedics are some very good providers, and they are dedicated to their jobs. It's just that as a SYSTEM, they are not a really good model. IMHO.

This is the same agency that I was referring to in my earlier post. Grand Blanc Township is just south of Flint, MI.

The Deputy that shot the suspect (guess it's a good idea to drop your weapon when you're ordered to by a Law Enforcement Officer!) is not only a Certified Peace Officer, but a licensed Paramedic as well. They cruise around in the Chevy Tahoes, and make traffic stops, answer calls and still respond to 'Tier I and Tier II' medical calls.

GCSO Paramedic Division

[stcommodore]

My offical job title is "fire service paramedic" . But we recently won a lawsuit that said we recieved ot past 40hrs unlike firefighters because we have no firefighting duties. Many firefighters were once medics but for many reasons no longer want to be medics. I feel like we could be cross trained, work occasional shifts as firefighters and it would destress some of the busiest medics in america.

[kevkei]

To gently nudge the thread back to the subject, why not? I can't stand the argument that you can't be proficient in two disciplines at the same time. I have enough experience seeing EMT's and Paramedics maintaining proficiency in the one profession. Does doing ambulance calls maintain one's proficiency?

I do both, and statistics speak for themselves. 87% of my call volume is EMS in nature, regardless of the apparatus I am on. This means that even on an engine, I still get a lot of patient interaction, especially if they are actually sick. I get regular ride time on both the engine and the ambulance, either a 1/1 or 2/2 rotation. I take pride in being a Paramedic, I had been in EMS for 15 years before looking at other options for career longevity and work life balance.

Basically, is this the norm? No it's not. I know and have seen the horror story's but the problem is generalizing and paintin all people and situations with the same brush. Do I support the NFPA and IAFF's positions on EMS? Not particularly, but I do feel it can work, can work well and without stealing from Peter to pay Paul.