RN vs RT

[46Young]

Here's the situation - I'm currently employed at the Fairfax County FRD. I'm eligible to test for either the apparatus tech and/or EMS tech position in another two years. I'll be eligible for an Lt promotion in another 4-5 years, depending on when the test is given. There are currently only all-hazards officer career tracks. 90% of your score on the tech promo list is the written test. The remaining 10% is based on education. Medics get 12% of that right away, and additional credits and degrees allow you to hit 100%. Education makes up 20% of the Lt score, and Capt I and above weigh education at 25%.

The FRD currently pays for one class per semester, including summer classes. This should increase as the economy recovers. The FRD has deals with local universities where some classes are held twice weekly, so employees from opposing shifts will be able to attend. Otherwise, the FRD lets you use leave while on duty to make classes. For example, you can use leave on every Wed that you're working from 1800 to 2300 to attend class. There are also numerous online classes, basically anything that doesn't require a lab. I could also go to day work to free up evenings for class, although this would result in me never being home for my family.

A fire science degree should be completed prior to becoming an officer, for the additional knowledge of building construction and other relevant topics. I'm also trying to decide between going for RN vs RT. Either of these will also satisfy the educational points for promo purposes. I don't have to worry about completing fire science for at least five years.

I'm asking for input regarding comparison of RN vs RT. I'm asking about pre-reqs, salary comparison, job description, availability of work as a per diem, length of program, evening hour availability, is any portion of either class available online, what amount of con-ed is available to recert, etc.

I would like to eventually get into flight, either an a medic or maybe RN if it's necessary to get hired. This would also be per diem. I'm planning to retire at age 55, then do three years in the DROP before leaving the service altogether. I currently weigh 225# at 6'3" lean.

Any thoughts/input/questions about the above? I'm going to look into what's available locally through the FRD. I'm figuring that I'll get some decent input here in the meantime.

[chbare]

Pre-req courses are very similar for both programs. Nursing school is full of busy work while RT school seems straight foreword but more technical and physiology based. Nursing school has a broad focus, where as RT school seems to have a narrow but indepth focus. On line nursing programs seem to be the latest and greatest thing, online RT programs do not appear to be as popular. Pay for both providers is highly variable, RN's will make a bit more; however, this gap is not wide and does not exist in some areas.

I am not sure your plan to attend school for promo purposes is a great plan. Both programs are full time and not piece meal class here and there educational experiences. I am a RT student, and I am in class five days a week. My shortest day is four hours in class with my longest being around six. In six weeks I had written three large papers and completed several large reading and homework assignments. In addition, a four page APA article review is required each week. So far, I can say the commitment is similar to my prior experience as a nursing student.

Take care,

chbare.

[46Young]

Pre-req courses are very similar for both programs. Nursing school is full of busy work while RT school seems straight foreword but more technical and physiology based. Nursing school has a broad focus, where as RT school seems to have a narrow but indepth focus. On line nursing programs seem to be the latest and greatest thing, online RT programs do not appear to be as popular. Pay for both providers is highly variable, RN's will make a bit more; however, this gap is not wide and does not exist in some areas.

I am not sure your plan to attend school for promo purposes is a great plan. Both programs are full time and not piece meal class here and there educational experiences. I am a RT student, and I am in class five days a week. My shortest day is four hours in class with my longest being around six. In six weeks I had written three large papers and completed several large reading and homework assignments. In addition, a four page APA article review is required each week. So far, I can say the commitment is similar to my prior experience as a nursing student.

Take care,

chbare.

Thanks for the input. I've looked into online RN bridge courses such as Excelsior, but I've been told that they don't prepare you well for the field, and an increasing number of states and employers won't acknowledge online degrees, due to lack of clinicals and such. I was going to do the nursing program at a local college back in NY while I was still working for NSLIJ, but I decided to leave the state in search of a secure career with a pension. Now that I'm set, I'm looking to go for either RN or RT regardless if it's for promotioal purposes or not. It just works out that the FRD values and prefers education for promotions.

Our work schedule is a 24 hour day, WOWOWOOOO. I am able to free up leave to attend class on work days if needed. I can also work OT, bank it as comp time, and use it for admin leave for school hours. I'm also wondering if all evening courses exist. I can go to day work if I absolutely have to.

Once your pre-reqs for RT are satisfied, how long is the actual program? How many hours for clinicals and how are they set up?

[chbare]

My program is an AD program that is about 27 months long. We go through the summer. Clinicals start second semester and are two days a week for three semesters. In addition, we do a five week ventilator course over the summer followed by several weeks of straight clinicals, then into the second year. I did not go through school during the summer as a student nurse; however, we spent several hours a week in pre-clinical work. All in all, we will have 1,000 hours of clinical experience. This is about as many clinical hours as my nursing program.

Take care,

chbare.

[46Young]

My program is an AD program that is about 27 months long. We go through the summer. Clinicals start second semester and are two days a week for three semesters. In addition, we do a five week ventilator course over the summer followed by several weeks of straight clinicals, then into the second year. I did not go through school during the summer as a student nurse; however, we spent several hours a week in pre-clinical work. All in all, we will have 1,000 hours of clinical experience. This is about as many clinical hours as my nursing program.

Take care,

chbare.

Were the second semester clincals flexible, or were they set days, such as every Tu/Thu, or could it be Mon/Fri one week, and Tu/Wed the next?

How many hours per week, on average, were you spending on nursing clinicals? Were the hours flexible, or fixed?

A five week ventilator course, huh? It makes the three hour inservice I had seem paltry in comparison. Ventmedic has mentioned that a medic needs to have, at the bare minimum, a two year medic degree to even be able to absorb and thrive in the IFT arena, let alone CC or flight. I see her point. My medic program barely even touched on vents. I had to get up to speed once in the field.

[flight-lp]

Thanks for the input. I've looked into online RN bridge courses such as Excelsior, but I've been told that they don't prepare you well for the field, and an increasing number of states and employers won't acknowledge online degrees, due to lack of clinicals and such. I was going to do the nursing program at a local college back in NY while I was still working for NSLIJ, but I decided to leave the state in search of a secure career with a pension. Now that I'm set, I'm looking to go for either RN or RT regardless if it's for promotioal purposes or not. It just works out that the FRD values and prefers education for promotions.

Our work schedule is a 24 hour day, WOWOWOOOO. I am able to free up leave to attend class on work days if needed. I can also work OT, bank it as comp time, and use it for admin leave for school hours. I'm also wondering if all evening courses exist. I can go to day work if I absolutely have to.

Once your pre-reqs for RT are satisfied, how long is the actual program? How many hours for clinicals and how are they set up?

You could definately do the PRN gig in nursing in almost any specialty, however I cannot speak intelligently of the RRT field. All of the RRT's I work with on the neo team are full-time, but Vent would be a great resource for that particular question. the problem isn't so much of working when convenient, but more getting to that level. As chbare states, the education is a full time one, regardless of the field. Excelsior will not prepare you for the field clinically, they expect you to come prepared. Nor does their program adequately provide the delineation from medicine and a strong foundation of the nursing process. That is the reason why many State's are thinking twice about licensing their graduates and why a good number of Paramedic's fail the CPNE. Even in an articulating students or transition program, you have to dedicate the time for class, skills, and clinicals.

Can you get creative with your schedule? Sure! Will it take its toll after a while? Probably! I'm working fulltime at two jobs plus taking a 12 semester hour load. Quite honestly, it is kicking my a$$. But I have the determination to see it through this time. Having communicated with you in multiple threads elsewhere, I could see you getting it done as you have a passion and motivation to succeed. I'd say do it!

In reference to working in the flight environment, I would strongly recommend becoming familiar with the height / weight restrictions of the agencies you are interested in. Many have a 220 - 225# weight restriction wet, meaning with suit / equipment / helmet / etc. Many also have height limitations as some of the smaller single engine airframes are not so accomodating to you taller types! I know I was tight in a Bell 206 and I'm only 5'7"!

[VentMedic]

Were the second semester clincals flexible, or were they set days, such as every Tu/Thu, or could it be Mon/Fri one week, and Tu/Wed the next?

How many hours per week, on average, were you spending on nursing clinicals? Were the hours flexible, or fixed?

A five week ventilator course, huh? It makes the three hour inservice I had seem paltry in comparison. Ventmedic has mentioned that a medic needs to have, at the bare minimum, a two year medic degree to even be able to absorb and thrive in the IFT arena, let alone CC or flight. I see her point. My medic program barely even touched on vents. I had to get up to speed once in the field.

That 5 week ventilator course just introduces you to what a ventilator is. The following semesters apply what you learned from that course to the courses for introduction to critical medicine and bring it all together later. You will also get a semester of specialty ventilation/critical care theory for Peds and a semester for neonatal. As well some programs may have electives in HBO, Cath Lab and ECHO. I did all three because I just couldn't get enough. I also repeated Cath Lab later when I did my B.S. in CardioPulmonary just to see how another center known for caths did it with technology. The first was in the 80s were we still did all the calculations and manual drawings.

It is difficult to have a flexible schedule because the clinicals may actually be monitored by physicians along with the clinical educators. Most of my classes, especially ath the B.S. level, were taught by physicians.

Nursing of course can have more opportunities but the RRT can have many also. I can travel on short or long assignments in any state I care to get a license in. I have also worked PRN as an RRT most of my career as a FT Paramedic. For specialty programs such as Neonatal, they did require a serious commitment especially if you wanted to work at a higher level of competency and be on transport.

RT is a very active profession politically when it comes to lobbying for benefits for the patient and the therapists. The benefits for the patient includes home care payments from medicare for extended services. By that, whatever benefits the patient gets it helps the RRTs' future. But, the patient is always emphasized first which the profession took notes from NPs, PTs and PAs in that areas. They didn't use the "me, me, me" approach and have managed to make great strides in the past 20+ years.

The biggest thing against the Excelsior program is the clinicals. You really need to know basic nursing skills and time management. Few RNs precepting you will want to talk you through gait management and the various lines when there are so many other things to learn about the facility. The clinicals also allow you to network for a decent job.

Edited October 5, 2009 by VentMedic

[Aussieaid]

I would like to eventually get into flight, either an a medic or maybe RN if it's necessary to get hired. This would also be per diem.

I totally encourage your pursuit of either RN or RRT degree. Either will open up many possibilities and avenues.

I would discourage you from thinking about trying to get a job in the flight arena per diem. I don't know of any flight program that would hire someone without previous flight experience for a per diem position. If they did I would be looking at a different program. People who have already worked full-time in flight are ok to go to per diem but it is not a position that you should be starting and learning about in a per diem position. You will also need 3-5 years of critical care experience as either an RN or RRT or good 911 ground experience as a paramedic before you should even consider a flight position.

When you say you are looking at retiring at age 55 is that just the fire service or working altogether?

[scubanurse]

I would keep an eye out at Montgomery College's website over the next few years as they are doing a lot in the way of a paramedic program and since they have a pretty good nursing program they might offer a bridge. The nursing school is located in Takoma Park, Maryland, which can be a little bit of a hike from Fairfax (not sure where you live). I'll shoot an e-mail to the program directors over there and see what they are thinking in ways of a bridge course. Montgomery College does however have a great Fire Science degree with one of the classes taught (last I heard) by our Chief Richard Bowers. The fire science course I took through there, equivalent to Officer I, met about once a month and almost all of the work was online. We had a career MCFRS member go through the course.

Something to look into.

I can not speak much to RN vs RT but I am a full time nursing student and just school alone (20 credits) is really kicking my butt some days. I just pulled an all nighter and I wish I could say it was my first of the semester. We have one woman in our class who works full time as an ED tech and she is barely scraping by with passing grades. It may just be the program I am in, but something to consider. A full time schedule anywhere is the equivalent to a full time job in my opinion and depending on your social life, may be hard to keep up and still do well.

Best of luck to you and don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions about MC's programs. I know both of their department heads and they are fantastic people and paramedic volunteers in Montgomery County.

[Dustdevil]

I'm having trouble with some of the non-standard acronyms you're using here. Can you define these for me?

FRD

NSLIJ

DROP

WOWOWOOOO