New Standards/Levels

[scubanurse]

Well I am sorry that you do not agree with my opinion and feel that I am not educated on the standards in EMS. But the original poster asked for our honest opinions and I gave mine, again, sorry you don't agree with me but you don't have to and that is what is lovely about an open debate forum.

Edited October 15, 2009 by scoobykate

[Kiwiology]

Something to draw comparisons too:

New Zealand

Basic life support (Ambulance Technician):

Education required: 120 hours self directed learning + 120 hours classroom + 180 hours clinical

Scope of Practice: OPA, NPA, LMA, AED, GTN SL, ASA PO, glucose PO, glucagon IM, salbutamol neb, zofram PO, entonox

Intermediate life support (Paramedic):

Education required: Bachelor of Health Science (Paramedic) - 2,400hrs didactic & simulation and 1,200hrs clinical

Scope of Practice: IV cannulation, IV fluid, 10% glucose IV, manual defibrillation, syncronised cardioversion, 3 lead ECG acquire and interpret, 12 lead ECG acquire, adrenaline IM/IV/neb, morphine IM/IV, zofran IM/IV, naloxone IM/IV/IN

Advanced life support (Intensive Care Paramedic):

Education required: Post Graduate Certificate in Intensive Care Paramedicine (12 months)

Scope of Practice: Endotracheal intubation, cricothyrotomy, pacing, 12 lead ECG interpreatation, intraosseous, atropine IV, amiodarone IV, ketamine IM/IV/PO, midazolam IM/IN/IV, frusomide IV and for selected ICPs: heparin, streptase, suxamethonium and vecuronium IV

Edited October 15, 2009 by kiwimedic

[FireMedic65]

In a perfect world, everyone should be a licensed, "college" educated WITH a degree, advanced life support provider. But put into perspective where how often you actually NEED an ALS. Not many providers will want to use their education hauling cheese or normal run of the mill BLS. Then again, you won't really know if you need ALS or not, unless ALS assesses the patient.

Where I live, I'm not extremely rural, but I am far from "the city". All that is around me, is volunteer BLS services that if dispatched, it is hit or miss on them responding, let alone a competent crew. Why volunteer BLS you might ask? Because there is no funding, for a service that is rarely needed. If you put up a paid staff, they would have to expand their coverage area greatly to justify their existence by actually running calls. To do this, you would have to do away with volunteer services all over the area, which would be a mess all on it's on.

Anyway, I don't even have an ALS service covered in my area, but that's another story why they aren't around.

PA, where I live, is adopting the AEMT. Doing away with FR is a good start in the right direction. I am all for this, for the time being. Not sure how it will work out. Maybe paramedics will be forced into more education and training and be allowed more responsibilities. I sure hope so.

As for this bickering. EMT-I is not an easy course from what I seen. Some of those people work really hard for where they are. Why don't you pull your head from your ass and support your fellow providers, regardless of their level of training. Stop insulting people, and use your so called knowledge and put it to good.

[RavEMTGun]

Why don't you pull your head from your ass and ... Stop insulting people

I'm not insulting anyone. I am strongly opposed to the idea of making a 300 hour I99 course the bottom level of EMS and I do think that the I99 concept is a stop-short in terms of educational thoroughness (the aforementioned 1000 hour rarity is a violation (in a good way) of the I99 concept!). That is a criticism of the system, not the people in it. Now stow your 'tude, dude.

In a perfect world, everyone should be a licensed, "college" educated WITH a degree, advanced life support provider.

So Canada and New Zealand are the "perfect world." OK... I wouldn't mind living in either place... but don't we like to think of ourselves as slightly more perfect? Why can't we do what they are doing? They are more rural than we are!

Edited October 15, 2009 by RavEMTGun

[FireMedic65]

I'm not insulting anyone. I am strongly opposed to the idea of making a 300 hour I99 course the bottom level of EMS and I do think that the I99 concept is a stop-short in terms of educational thoroughness (the aforementioned 1000 hour rarity is a violation (in a good way) of the I99 concept!). That is a criticism of the system, not the people in it. Now stow your 'tude, dude.

So Canada and New Zealand are the "perfect world." OK... I wouldn't mind living in either place... but don't we like to think of ourselves as slightly more perfect? Why can't we do what they are doing? They are more rural than we are!

Who said I was talking about you? Guilty conscious much?

I'm not insulting anyone. I am strongly opposed to the idea of making a 300 hour I99 course the bottom level of EMS and I do think that the I99 concept is a stop-short in terms of educational thoroughness (the aforementioned 1000 hour rarity is a violation (in a good way) of the I99 concept!). That is a criticism of the system, not the people in it. Now stow your 'tude, dude.

So Canada and New Zealand are the "perfect world." OK... I wouldn't mind living in either place... but don't we like to think of ourselves as slightly more perfect? Why can't we do what they are doing? They are more rural than we are!

Read the rest of what I said.

[Dustdevil]

Anyone still measuring in hours isn't ready.

[RavEMTGun]

Anyone still measuring in hours isn't ready.

Ready... for what?

What should we measure in? Colleges do the same. A semester hour generally means 16 hours of classroom time (except for labs).

Certainly quality of education is key, but you have to have time to impart and practice that knowledge. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you... do you not think classroom education and practice are crucial?

Edited October 15, 2009 by RavEMTGun

[scubanurse]

WTH is a semester hour? Every college I know of in the US uses semester credits... so a typical class is 3 credits meaning you meet for 3 hours a week...

But I agree with Dusty... hours don't mean jack shyt if the instruction is piss poor. I know some colleges who I wouldn't trust the quality of their degrees at all but they're still universities and colleges.

[FireMedic65]

Anyone still measuring in hours isn't ready.

VERY TRUE! Training/education should not me measured in regards to "time put in".

[Kiwiology]

@ Rav - pull your head out your arse mate; if somebody took a 1,000hr class to become an ILS provider then thats what they did.

There must be some basis to measure educational standards; we use a point system here; a Bachelors Degree is 360 points, typically 120 points a year is taken or 60 a semester; each class is 15 points which equates to 10 hours for each point.

Now, as far as our education programs for EMS here no we do not measure hours and infact I have had to turn what we do into the average number of hours to give you some idea of what we do because you guys still use hours.

And why are you opposed to 300 hours of education being the minimum standard? Is it not better than 120?

Oh is NZ perfect; no, no system is. But I trust one of our Degree ILS medics with three years and over 3,000 hours of education and applied learning a hell of a lot more than some patch factory graduate firefighter.

Edited October 15, 2009 by kiwimedic