Gimme the flu vaccine, or I won't play EMT!

[Siffaliss]

Lastly, I believe that Health Canada has been quite dilligent about ensuring that this vaccine is safe, which is one of the reasons it took longer to be released here than in the USA.

Historically, medications and such always do take longer to be approved in Canada than in the US. I had my doubts on getting the H1N1 as there is really no information on long term effects of the vaccine. There was no scare tactic used on me such as how the media whipped everyone up into a frenzy, then told everyone to stay at home if they have the flu unless respiratory difficulty is present. I made my decision on the information available and had the shot. If my shoulder necroses in 2 years and moves my elbow to the other side of my arm, well, it was my decision. (I'm double jointed anyhow)

Edited November 2, 2009 by Siffaliss

[wrmedic82]

If a paid EMT or Medic refused to take a job, there would be calling for their job. What is the difference?

Thats why we have gloves, gowns, masks and glasses on the bus. Wear them.

Why should the citizens of that community suffer because of her ignorance and ineptitude?

Refusing to enter a shooting scene before PD clears it is one thing.

Refusing to enter a burning structure without the proper gear, training, and team is one thing.

Refusing to go on flu like symptoms call because you have not been vaccinated is completely another.

I wonder how many years prior she got the flu vaccine?

I agree with what everyone is saying here. The problem that I feel is being overlooked is that she is a volunteer. Im not sure how NJ defines duty to act, but where Im from its really a grey area. Just because the department drops a tone for a medical call doesnt mean I have to go. (of course Im gonna go without question) My legal duty to act doesnt come into play until I check en route over the radio. I do both paid and volly work. Personnally she needs to pull her head out her butt, and remember that its the citizens that provide the funding for new equipment, and that she has a direct impact on the PR of her department. If she isnt goint to take care of the citizens she is sworn to protect. If I was living in her district I would be appauled if they asked for additional funding. From a patient care stand point Im not going to allow a guilt cloud over my head cuz a kiddo had flu like symptoms and crashed. (I know that it maybe far fetch).

[Siffaliss]

Yeah she's a volunteer, but she could always go work for a paid service. It's a choice she makes, just like I choose to be paid. As everyone has said, she really does need to grow up. There could be people walking around in public when she's not on call who have the flu and cough at or on her. What's she going to to do about that? Her best protection is still proper BSI according to the call and washing her hands, but I guess that's a little tough for her. (Glad I don't live in that area!)

Think about it ...

Have we all been exposed to MRSA? Probably.

Have we all dealt with a patient with the HEP or the HIV? Probably.

Have we all been around someone with the flu before? Probably.

If you go to an "unknown" call and it turns out to be someone with the flu, would you run out of the room? Hope not.

Would you put a mask on that patient, then mask and gown yourself to try and prevent further exposure? Hope so.

I can hardly wait until this "pandemic" is over with so people start acting *normal* again.

[tniuqs]

Think about it ...

Have we all been exposed to MRSA? Probably.

Have we all dealt with a patient with the HEP or the HIV? Probably.

Have we all been around someone with the flu before? Probably.

If you go to an "unknown" call and it turns out to be someone with the flu, would you run out of the room? Hope not.

Would you put a mask on that patient, a key point<edit> then mask and gown yourself to try and prevent further exposure? Hope so.

I can hardly wait until this "pandemic" is over with so people start acting *normal* again.

Lol at *normal* as this is one twisted sister, irony in the truest form today.

Well, I will not disagree with the any of the above statements and this is somewhat pan-media induced and now even coined the "Evan Effect" but makes me seriously ponder if we are truly prepared for a plague of biblical proportion's as it has occurred and reoccurred many times in the history of the human species, it forces me to reevaluate the Cassandra metaphor, fortunatly we have those that are proactive with less of a grandstand required so perhaps they will be the ones to survive or is that just a Darwinian "conspiracy" rearing its head again.

Siffalass you chose to be vaccinated, just saying you state that:

Her best protection is still proper BSI according to the call and washing her hands, but I guess that's a little tough for her.

You appear to be contradicting yourself with words verses actions or am I missing something here and don't get all pissed at me, I am just pointing out what you stated.

I certainly wish now I had been afforded that option 2 weeks ago, so please consider yourself fortunate because where we live more influential leaders at the national level were very proactive for some, but many like myself (in a far higher risk group) were not afforded that opportunity in a timely fashion whether it be seasonal or H1N1 vaccination.

But then again I could be totally off base, its far too early for the Phat pandemic lady to sing just yet.

cheers

Edited November 3, 2009 by tniuqs

[under-dreaming]

When this flu first emerged, there was a lot of scare going around. I caught a little bit of it myself, in the heat of things. I'm over it. Sickness happens. Swine flu is just another flu as far as I can tell. H1N1 does have some peculiar/mysterious differences from the seasonal flu... but does that call for such hysteria? People are becoming afraid of the unknown. If you don't like to be around sick people, you probably shouldn't be in EMS. I am cautious about taking a new vaccine. Flu vaccines have a bad history of hurting people. They have gotten better over the years, but this is a new one entirely. Why take the risk?

I noticed people are referring to the idea that strains evolve. Again, why take the risk with an unproven vaccine when there is a possibility that even if the vaccine did not hurt you, it may not stop the virus once it comes your way due to strain evolution?

BSI is the most important tool that we have.

[spenac]

I agree with what everyone is saying here. The problem that I feel is being overlooked is that she is a volunteer. Im not sure how NJ defines duty to act, but where Im from its really a grey area. Just because the department drops a tone for a medical call doesnt mean I have to go. (of course Im gonna go without question) My legal duty to act doesnt come into play until I check en route over the radio. I do both paid and volly work. Personnally she needs to pull her head out her butt, and remember that its the citizens that provide the funding for new equipment, and that she has a direct impact on the PR of her department. If she isnt goint to take care of the citizens she is sworn to protect. If I was living in her district I would be appauled if they asked for additional funding. From a patient care stand point Im not going to allow a guilt cloud over my head cuz a kiddo had flu like symptoms and crashed. (I know that it maybe far fetch).

Actually if you are in Texas as your profile say's volunteers have a duty to act. Why? To have an ambulance registered you have to have a schedule showing it is staffed. So if you are scheduled that day you have a duty to act. Now off duty, not on schedule paid or volly it is up to you if you will respond. If the volly service you respond with does not have a schedule showing proper staffing you need to self report them before the state catches them as each member is responsible to report known rules violations. So if the state finds them guilty they will also find you guilty.

[tniuqs]

'under-dreaming'

When this flu first emerged, there was a lot of scare going around. I caught a little bit of it myself, in the heat of things. I'm over it. Sickness happens. Swine flu is just another flu as far as I can tell.

Incorrect EBM is proving that statement to be false, death can be prevented in the pediatric population alone see below links and take a look at the world health organization site.

Or http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/Infection-Control/articles/587145-H1N1-A-Novel-Flu-Affecting-Moms-and-Kids/

Robert Wadell II being a respected colleague.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/en/

I am doing a hell of lot of foot work here it sure would be nice to get a few green responses of encouragement as bactria and virus mutate perhaps so should this thread

H1N1 does have some peculiar/mysterious differences from the seasonal flu... but does that call for such hysteria?

Hysteria NO ... Knowledge YES ... again see below or above.

People are becoming afraid of the unknown. If you don't like to be around sick people, you probably shouldn't be in EMS.

Agreed !

I am cautious about taking a new vaccine. Flu vaccines have a bad history of hurting people.

Again uninformed, any studies to prove your statement please ...

They have gotten better over the years, but this is a new one entirely. Why take the risk? I noticed people are referring to the idea that strains evolve. Again, why take the risk with an unproven vaccine when there is a possibility that even if the vaccine did not hurt you, it may not stop the virus once it comes your way due to strain evolution ?

Oh yes they have, the risk to this and the other vaccines is proven to be very safe it is proven see Siffalass comment regarding Canada health and FDA and over the years since salk and sabin vaccines alone have saved millions of lives, just to mention the practice of western medicine.

BSI is the most important tool that we have.

No vaccination the most important tool in the kit bag as is information and education and in support of your statement (in part) I provide a link, a question was asked concerning the lack of supplies for N95 masks.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFluNews/cdc-flu-mask-decision-based-flawed-study-authors/story?id=8966585

Yes this is just a news report I promise I will look for the actual study

So Can you explain why your President now is in the news and calling for more vaccine ?

Dr Lowe a well known infectious disease expert and public health was recently interviewed and was involved in the SARS outbreak. His advice is that vast majority flu like illness reported is highly likely to be H1N1 strain in North America (thanks mexico) and even if one HAS been exposed and has mild reaction then his very astute advice is to be vaccinated for both seasonal and H1N1. Differentiation in regard symptoms is the immune response from H1N1, adenovirus, Influenza A and B, parainfluenza and RSV (hey I am learning a lot here myself) make note have you see any posts from VENTMEDIC .... I just bet that one is getting running off their feet.

Again I provide a link, actually am beginning to change my initial very skeptical view in regard to our National Level as of the direct results of an emergency debate in our House of Parliament last night

Part of our National anthem: We stand on gaurd for thee but then some prefer the rockets red glare

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/index-eng.php

[kevkei]

I kind of laugh that the recent fatality in Ontario with the adolescent kid, on national media, a local infectious diseases specialist repeated that a persons odds statistically were more likely to be killed in a motor vehicle collision (not be involved in). Since most of us either drive or ride in a vehicle quite regluarly, we take action to protect ourselves right? Supplemental restraint systems (airbags), seatbelts, etc .... These are all things to improve safety, increase odds of survival, decrease morbidity and mortality, etc.

By arguing against H1N1 immunization or refusal to get it, I feel these people are a part of the problem. The only way people can pe part of the solution right now is to build up immunity to this strain through exposure either through direct contact or through immunization. The reality is it is currently a pandemic and it's prevalence is only increasing.

I agree with the statements made about fear mongering but it's frustrating when we as an industry are a part of the problem again as suggested by the many debates here and other sites on this issue. I guess it's the fear of the unknown? When was the last time the media said anything about West Nile or mad cow disease? It's not like these things have gone away, just fallen out of the media spotlight.

'Swine flu' (Actually H1N1 please, otherwise you are part of the problem of hysteria ) Has proven to be different other than just a flu, hence the specific batch. This alone is significant as the specificity is nearly 100% and early indications are that the efficacy is just over 80% for those being immunized. By my book, those are pretty good statistics.

[HellsBells]

I am cautious about taking a new vaccine. Flu vaccines have a bad history of hurting people. They have gotten better over the years, but this is a new one entirely. Why take the risk?

I had the same response as tniuqs, where is the evidence? I would seriously be interested in reading about harm caused by vaccines. Or is this the knee jerk "the flu vaccine made me sick" or "vaccines cause autism" reaction?

[rock_shoes]

Would you put a mask on that patient, then mask and gown yourself to try and prevent further exposure? Hope so.

I can hardly wait until this "pandemic" is over with so people start acting *normal* again.

Not to nit-pick, but I would strongly recommend donning mask, gown, and eye protection before getting close enough to a flu patient to put a mask on them.