Gimme the flu vaccine, or I won't play EMT!

[under-dreaming]

My link

These are not the only guys publicly discussing this topic. It may be unpopular, but that does not make it false.

Vaccines have caused issues that outweigh their purpose.

[tniuqs]

My link

These are not the only guys publicly discussing this topic. It may be unpopular, but that does not make it false.

Vaccines have caused issues that outweigh their purpose.

Ok firstly I appreciate the attempt honestly, but here is counterpoint(s)

I counter to the very misinformed that one would use U tube as EBM, there are no studies quoted in either video/interview in fact only reference is generic to journals ie NEJM only, but no tangible data.

Both of these links provide are in fact politicking for profit MDs and private v/s public debate and are both not practicing and one is a absolute fossil, a past neurologist not epidemiologist, would you consult a OBGYN for a Cardiac problem you still have not provided any STUDY concerning the adverse effects nor deaths resulting from any vaccine or incidence of GB, or directly attributed to a vaccine, the first link is absolute conjecture based on a flu in 1976, (interesting that now the older age group exposed to that strain curiously have become a lower risk group) unfortunately the reference to that 1976 is incorrect information I looked it up but that took 20 minutes not going to waste my time looking for needles in haystacks/myths, the stats are buried deeply, and not just N.A btw, perhaps this is why that is quoted as so called evidence is my best bet.

SO: Please keep in mind the term pandemic not northamericademic.

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009, Ukraine - update 1

3 November 2009 -- According to the Ministry of Health of Ukraine, the country has now recorded more than 250 000 cases of influenza-like illness, with 235 patients requiring intensive care. As of 2 November, 70 deaths from acute respiratory illness have been reported.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_11_03/en/index.html

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 - update 72

Weekly update

As of 25 October 2009, worldwide there have been more than 440,000 laboratory confirmed cases of pandemic influenza H1N1 2009 and over 5700 deaths reported to WHO.As many countries have stopped counting individual cases, particularly of milder illness, the case count is likely to be significantly lower than the actual number of cases that have occurred. WHO is actively monitoring the progress of the pandemic through frequent consultations with the WHO Regional Offices and member states and through monitoring of multiple sources of data.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_10_30/en/index.html

The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) is committed to sharing information about the impact of the H1N1 flu virus in Canada. Every Tuesday and Thursday at 4 p.m., the Agency will issue national up dates on H1N1-associated deaths. In addition, PHAC will issue special reports on any unsual cases or clusters. FluWatch, will be published every Friday at 4 p.m. to provide a detailed analysis of the impact of the H1N1 flu virus in Canada.

Bi-weekly and cumulative number of deaths due to Pandemic (H1N1) 2009, by province/territory, Canada, as of 3 November, 2009, 11h00 EDT

Deaths New / Deaths reported

Province / Territory

(from October 29, 2009 to November 3, 2009, 11h00 EDT) Cumulative

British Columbia 2 14

Alberta 2 14

Saskatchewan 0 5

Manitoba 0 7

Ontario 0 30

Quebec 0 27

New Brunswick 0 0

Nova Scotia 0 1

Prince Edward Island 0 0

Newfoundland 1 1

Yukon 1 1

Northwest Territories 0 0

Nunavut 0 1

Total 6 101

NO REPORTED ADVERSE EFFECTS RESULTING IN DEATH.

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 - update 72

WEEKLY UPDATE (VIROLOGICAL SURVEILLANCE DATA)

30 October 2009 -- The Global Influenza Surveillance Network (GISN) continues monitoring the global circulation of influenza viruses in particular those infecting or with the potential of infecting humans including seasonal influenza.

Since the beginning of the pandemic in 19 April 2009 to October 17th, a total of 80 countries reported to FluNet. The total number of specimens reportedly positive for influenza viruses by NIC laboratories was 161,069. Of these, 100,946 (62.7%) were pandemic H1N1, 6887 (4.3%) were seasonal A (H1), 20,102 (12.5%) were A (H3), 28,443 (17.7%) were A (Not subtyped) and 4691 (2.9%) were influenza B.

For this reporting week (11 October to 17 October 2009); a total of 29 countries reported to FluNet. The total number of specimens reportedly positive for influenza viruses by NIC laboratories was 9212. Of these, 6772 (73.5%) were pandemic H1N1, 65 (0.7%) were seasonal A (H1), 277 (3%) were A (H3), 1961 (21.3%) were A (Not subtyped), 137 (1.5%) were influenza B.

Systematic surveillance conducted by the Global Influenza Surveillance Network (GISN) including WHO Collaborating Centres (WHOCCs) for reference and research on influenza, continues to detect sporadic incidents of H1N1 pandemic viruses that show resistance to the antiviral oseltamivir. To date, 39 resistant pandemic H1N1 influenza viruses have been detected and characterized worldwide. All of these viruses show the same H275Y mutation that confers resistance to the antiviral oseltamivir, but not to the antiviral zanamivir. Worldwide, more than 10,000 clinical specimens (samples and isolates) of the pandemic H1N1 virus have been tested and found to be sensitive to oseltamivir.

All pandemic H1N1 2009 influenza viruses analysed to date were antigenically and genetically closely related to the vaccine virus A/California/7/2009.

under dreaming have you checked your CDC website ?

[under-dreaming]

There is more than ten pages of statistical analysis provided with the Dr. Mercola link beneath his video. By the way, if it is inappropriate to use u tube as a medium for communication over the internet, what would be appropriate for you? If you are choosing not to regard the information based on your belief that these doctors are deliberately misinforming people for profit, then it doesn't matter what they say.

At this point, it appears to be unlikely for you to regard a source that does not come from a government sponsored agency. That's fine. There is nothing we can resolve though, if that is the case.

You should check out the statistics they have analyzed though, that is if you haven't already.

"Pandemic (H1N1) 2009, Ukraine - update 1

3 November 2009 -- According to the Ministry of Health of Ukraine, the country has now recorded more than 250 000 cases of influenza-like illness, with 235 patients requiring intensive care. As of 2 November, 70 deaths from acute respiratory illness have been reported."

According to this information that you posted, 0.094% of people who are determined to have influenza-like illness are admitted to ICU. That seems rather low. 0.028% are dieing from this influenza like illness, according to this source you provided. This isn't even bringing up what the patients' prior medical histories are.

What were you trying to say with that source you cited?

Edited November 4, 2009 by under-dreaming

[tniuqs]

There is more than ten pages of statistical analysis provided with the Dr. Mercola link beneath his video. By the way, if it is inappropriate to use u tube as a medium for communication over the internet, what would be appropriate for you? If you are choosing not to regard the information based on your belief that these doctors are deliberately misinforming people for profit, then it doesn't matter what they say. At this point, it appears to be unlikely for you to regard a source that does not come from a government sponsored agency. That's fine. There is nothing we can resolve though, if that is the case. You should check out the statistics they have analyzed though, that is if you haven't already.

"Pandemic (H1N1) 2009, Ukraine - update 1

3 November 2009 -- According to the Ministry of Health of Ukraine, the country has now recorded more than 250 000 cases of influenza-like illness, with 235 patients requiring intensive care. As of 2 November, 70 deaths from acute respiratory illness have been reported."

According to this information that you posted, 0.094% of people who are determined to have influenza-like illness are admitted to ICU. That seems rather low. 0.028% are dieing from this influenza like illness, according to this source you provided. This isn't even bringing up what the patients' prior medical histories are. What were you trying to say with that source you cited?

Ok My Bad I did not use the little slider thingy, accept my apologies, was a very long day for me

I have just spent 3 hours reading when I located statements and then read footnotes so thanks very appreciated, but I am actually reading the studies not interviews,and more to follow as much to digest here.

Vaccine Safety Testing Only Done for ONE Week

Ok the good Doctor states this:

Now we are being told that this new fast tracked, poorly tested vaccine is very safe and effective. The results of the testing on this vaccine were reported in the New England Journal of Medicine.39 It is instructive to learn that the tests for safety and to assess complications lasted only 7 days after the vaccine, an incredibly short period of follow-up. Gullian Barre paralysis can occur even months after a vaccine as can seizures, behavioral problems and neurodevelopmental disorders in children.

It is interesting to note that the authors of the safety study for our swine flu vaccine were all employees of the maker of the vaccine CSL Biotherapeutics and eight held equity interest in the company.39 This admission is part of the disclosure policy of the New England Journal of Medicine.

It is always important to keep in mind when you hear about this vaccine being safe and produced just like the seasonal flu vaccine -- What else do they not know about this vaccine that they will discover months, years or even decades later. Once injected with the vaccine and you develop a complication there will be little that can be done to treat the life-long degenerative disorder it produces. You will just be a sad story on 60 minutes.

Now look to the actual study ... You decide if he is credible he says 7 days the study he quotes is really 21 days and a preliminary report.

So how can one even suggest with this hypothesis is based upon .... senility ?

No one yet knows why Guillain-Barré—which is not contagious—strikes some people and not others. Nor does anyone know exactly what sets the disease in motion.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/detail_gbs.htm

Oddly enough he is a past member of National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke too.

Response after One Dose of a Monovalent

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Vaccine —

Preliminary Report

A novel influenza A (H1N1) 2009 virus is responsible for the first influenza pandemic

in 41 years. A safe and effective vaccine is urgently needed. A randomized,

observer-blind, parallel-group trial evaluating two doses of an inactivated, splitvirus

2009 H1N1 vaccine in healthy adults between the ages of 18 and 64 years is

ongoing at a single site in Australia.

Results

By day 21 after vaccination, antibody titers of 1:40 or more were observed in 116 of

120 subjects (96.7%) who received the 15-μg dose and in 112 of 120 subjects

(93.3%) who received the 30-μg dose. No deaths, serious adverse events, or adverse

events of special interest were reported. Local discomfort (e.g., injection-site tenderness

or pain) was reported by 46.3% of subjects, and systemic symptoms (e.g., headache)

by 45.0% of subjects. Nearly all events were mild to moderate in intensity.

Conclusions

A single 15-μg dose of 2009 H1N1 vaccine was immunogenic in adults, with mildto-

moderate vaccine-associated reactions. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00938639.)

Do you believe for one second that all of those patients are not registered and are presently being tracked by CDC ... meh, cant you see he is using studies that just support his one sided point of view.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec16/ch183/ch183c.html

This is a link disputing Thimerosal (C9H9HgNaO2S or ethylmercurithiosalicylic acid) and the good DR's opinions http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/02vol28/dr2809ea.html

Initial Studies Show H1N1 NOT Dangerous or Highly Contagious

Evidence from earlier studies suggests that cytotoxic T-cell immune immunity ... immune response, which may explain why the H1N1 2009 virus, ...

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-10/uoc--efv101409.php A very interesting read, it contradicts the vast majority of his assumptions as well the H5N1 also mentioned.

Majority of Children Respond POORLY to Flu Vaccine

It is interesting to note that babies this age respond poorly to either the seasonal flu vaccine or the H1N1 vaccine. One of the largest studies ever done, found that children below the age of 2 years received no protection at all from the seasonal flu vaccine.

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT, look to the link in Canada Health for updated studies ... the link was provided already.

Flu Vaccine DOUBLES Risk of Getting H1N1

This is the best and funny doubles LOL try 100% EVERYONE that has the vaccine has a dead H1N1 thats just so silly a statement I am laughing ... just who is fear mongering here ?

cheers

Edited November 4, 2009 by tniuqs

[kevkei]

Vaccines have caused issues that outweigh their purpose.

This is a comment that ranks up there with explosives having been use to bring down the world trade centres on 9/11. Measles, small pox, the list goes on.

Here's a statistic you can quote. The prevalence of adverse responses to immunizations (life threatening, Guillain-Barré, etc) is significantly less than the mortality rate of H1N1. Meaning, a statistically significant margin (ratio)of more people will die from H1N1 than will develop Guillain-Barré syndrome.

I wouldn't give any of your sources the time of day unless it is peer reviewed and published. Until then, even if there are some valid points, still a special interest group. Always be concerned with the minority, whether the extreme left or the extreme right. Where I think a bunch of us are is right in the middle. It's up to us to discern what makes sense and how it will apply to what we do.

[kevkei]

These are not the only guys publicly discussing this topic. It may be unpopular, but that does not make it false.

After thoughtfully reviewing the Youtube video from Ron Paul "Ron Paul about the Swine Flu People die from the Vaccines not from The Flu" a quick question.

1. When was this video made? It ws posted to his website on Sunday May 3, 2009 to be exact. Swine Flu Shot? No than-you Since this was over 6 months ago I think it has next to no credibility. How has his perspective change? Since H1N1 has changed in that time, I bet so too has he. Are there any more recent links to substantiate his perspective in this May blog?

2. Has Ron Paul received the H1N1 immunization?

A couple of quotes to consider from the Youtube link.

1. At 1:10 mark, he states "this is not to downplay the seriousness, some people have died and some people might die yet"

- How does this support your position? Where does he state in this video that the H1N1 immunization is unsafe? He is quoting incidents from the 1970's.

2. At 2:34 mark "All I am askind people is to do is step back and think for a minute rather than rushing and panicking and taking advantage of this..."

- Is that not what we have been and are trying to do here?

Edited November 4, 2009 by kevkei

[tniuqs]

DUH I just noticed the goggle links on the advertisement on this page ... ah more reading.

<edit> and then after my post they were gone will try H1N1 in the post again to see if thats the thang?

Edited November 4, 2009 by tniuqs

[Gypsy]

Just wanting to add a few points to the topic that vaccines bring their own problems. I am 23 years old and have already told my husband when we have kids I don't want them vaccinated. Why? Because I am that 1% of America that would be hospitalized after every shot as a child. I am speaking from personal and family experiance. My mother and grandmother also had these side effects to any vaccine:

Swollen injection site ( sometimes as much as 3 times normal size)

Fever that would peek at 103-104F for 48 hours. Fever reducing medications do not work in my family.

"Spider veins" radiating out from the injection site

Injection site was hard and HOT to the touch if fever was not present

Children as of at least a year ago have these reactions. Had a 3 year old last year the day after her shots had those signs. All the teachers are freaking out and I look at her and say, "just call her mom and have her taking to St. Jo's Children's. She's fine." Sure enough mom came back the next day saying, "My daughter is allergic to vaccines!"

Even to this day if I get a vaccine I'm looking at a low grade fever, swelling, and a site that is hard to the touch. Getting the TB test done was fun. The site instantly reacted and I'm sitting there sighing in frustration.

So ya do you think I rushed out and got the H1N1 vaccine? Nope.

ON the topic of the volly though: She's an idiot. She puts herself at risk all the time. Just follow BSI and wash hands constantly.

[tniuqs]

'Gypsy' date='04 November 2009 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1257361402' post='228623']

Just wanting to add a few points to the topic that vaccines bring their own problems. I am 23 years old and have already told my husband when we have kids I don't want them vaccinated. Why? Because I am that 1% of America that would be hospitalized after every shot as a child. I am speaking from personal and family experiance. My mother and grandmother also had these side effects to any vaccine:

Ok you say 1% are hospitalized, is that an estimation, no offence but following that how many die ?

Best advice would be go to an allergist, and be evaluated ... a child in Canada would NOT be allowed to attend public school

If you did produce a daughter (I don't know family history for cervical cancer and genital warts)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine

Swollen injection site ( sometimes as much as 3 times normal size)

Fever that would peek at 103-104F for 48 hours. Fever reducing medications do not work in my family.

"Spider veins" radiating out from the injection site

Injection site was hard and HOT to the touch if fever was not present

No one stated there was no side effects ... I have observed an anaphylactic response to Benadryl ... go figure.

Children as of at least a year ago have these reactions. Had a 3 year old last year the day after her shots had those signs. All the teachers are freaking out and I look at her and say, "just call her mom and have her taking to St. Jo's Children's. She's fine." Sure enough mom came back the next day saying, "My daughter is allergic to vaccines!"

Hey no one said its a perfect system, I observed a TV interview where it was clearly written on the consent form allergies and someone missed it and gave the vaccination ... curious the child did NOT have a reaction = no lawsuit.

Even to this day if I get a vaccine I'm looking at a low grade fever, swelling, and a site that is hard to the touch. Getting the TB test done was fun. The site instantly reacted and I'm sitting there sighing in frustration.

this is actually a very mild response they hospitalized you for this sound like your first statement ... if your that sensitive to pain, maybe think about making a child ... just saying.

So ya do you think I rushed out and got the H1N1 vaccine? Nope.

Patient benefit vs risk always an issue in any medication more risk from taking a cold remedy off the shelf.

ON the topic of the volly though: She's an idiot. She puts herself at risk all the time. Just follow BSI and wash hands constantly.

Meanwhile in our British Columbia the Professional Firefighters are bitching in the TV news because they got excluded by their provincial government .... rock_shoes is going to love to hear that, CUPE and IFFA joining forces;

Quote same scene same pay ... maybe add same PPE ?

cheers

[under-dreaming]

Just to be clear about my own intentions for involving myself in this debate:

I wanted to present the brief and vague (and perhaps biased) information to illustrate my original point of discussion. There is plenty of reason in my mind to believe that the H1N1 flu is not as terribly deadly and catastrophic as it is played out to be on television. People are, in my own opinion, getting way too excited over an illness that so closely resembles an illness that occurs annually. The similarities are in the signs/symptoms and in mortality rates (as far as my relatively minor research has shown).

Because of this observation of mine, I find that the behavior of this former mayor and volunteer EMT is completely uncalled for. If she personally does not want to play EMT until she gets a vaccination (which would be a measly two day wait), that is her personal decision (she is a volly after all). She didn't remover herself though did she? Instead she stands up on television and makes a big deal about how unfair the system is and makes unreasonable demands to put herself in front of potential patients by receiving the vaccination (which is in limited supply) before the predetermined high risk patients. I find that particularly distasteful not because she feels that way, but because she wants everybody to feel that way by going on the record on television.

I thought that by pointing out the possibility that this vaccine might not be all it is cracked up to be, I would be illustrating her poor judgment. Since there is such a strong argument for both not taking and taking the vaccine (again, this is just my personal opinion), I fear that my initial point was rendered useless. I really don't want to try to prove one thing or the other on this issue. So I am sorry for fueling the flames in that context.

So, to reiterate my stance: The woman that this article was written about is worthless. She is an attention getter and a fear monger. There is no good reason for her to make such a big stink about a couple of days to wait for a vaccine. In rural Alaska, we had to wait a little longer to even have it available for anyone. It just bothers me when people don't take things like that into consideration. When there is a limited supply of something everybody wants, some people are just going to have to wait. We can't all be the Queen of England.

Edited November 5, 2009 by under-dreaming