Your typical Lifeline call

[VentMedic]

The different levels of certification are not a convenience, they are based on the needs of an individual area.

Here's a news flash for you Herb, the new education standards are coming out whether you like it or not. Having 4 -7 different levels for EMS providers each state and each state different from each other is of no benefit to EMS, the patient or the individual who tries to move from state to state.

What happened to you in your career that you seem to have such a dim view of EMS providers? If you started spouting your personal opinions and generalizations about EMS around 99% of the people I work with, you would be quickly shown the door- if you were lucky.

I grew up, got an education and starting working with those who didn't just sit in the easy chair at the station spewing complaints about their patients, their job and their life. Read you own negative comments on this forum and use those as an example to what I am talking about.

There are some secret ways to staying in a profession for over 30 years and that is not to stop learning and not to put up with crap from burnt out EMT(P)s who have long ago stopped caring.

Every one of these folks that I have met or read opinions from is out of touch.

I continued my education to make a difference and some can't handle change. I think your arguments for the many different levels and that everything is fine in EMS have demonstrated that attitude greatly. It is time some in EMS decide if they want to be part of the future or it they should just get out and shut up if they have nothing productive left to offer this profession and the public they serve. Change is coming whether you like it or not. Maybe you should also broaden your reading opinions from more than just an anonymous EMS forum. Have you even been to a regional, state or national education meeting to discuss anything pertaining to EMS? You actually know a few people on this forum that have and it is a shame you consider all of them "out of touch". I'm sure Dr. Bledsoe likes hearing he is out of touch. How about Rid? What about our two ED doctors that take time to educate those in EMS and support the providers? You generalize and bash way too many things and people you know very little about.

[HERBIE1]

Here's a news flash for you Herb, the new education standards are coming out whether you like it or not. Having 4 -7 different levels for EMS providers each state and each state different from each other is of no benefit to EMS, the patient or the individual who tries to move from state to state.

I grew up, got an education and starting working with those who didn't just sit in the easy chair at the station spewing complaints about their patients, their job and their life. Read you own negative comments on this forum and use those as an example to what I am talking about.

There are some secret ways to staying in a profession for over 30 years and that is not to stop learning and not to put up with crap from burnt out EMT(P)s who have long ago stopped caring.

I continued my education to make a difference and some can't handle change. I think your arguments for the many different levels and that everything is fine in EMS have demonstrated that attitude greatly. It is time some in EMS decide if they want to be part of the future or it they should just get out and shut up if they have nothing productive left to offer this profession and the public they serve. Change is coming whether you like it or not. Maybe you should also broaden your reading opinions from more than just an anonymous EMS forum. Have you even been to a regional, state or national education meeting to discuss anything pertaining to EMS? You actually know a few people on this forum that have and it is a shame you consider all of them "out of touch". I'm sure Dr. Bledsoe likes hearing he is out of touch. How about Rid? What about our two ED doctors that take time to educate those in EMS and support the providers? You generalize and bash way too many things and people you know very little about.

Change, for change's sake is not the answer. You have a clear bias toward providing social services to our patients. I do not agree that is an appropriate or even logical use of EMS services and resources in cash strapped communities, especially when these are best addressed by another profession that has the proper education, training, and resources.

I don't care how many levels of providers there are if they can be justified. That's like saying that a small town looking for a doctor should not be satisfied with anything less than a John Hopkins trained neurosurgeon to be the town's sole Family Practitioner.

It's not your material I have the problem with, it's your attitude. Everyone has their own opinions and are entitled to them, but you pontificate, belittle, and generally act superior to most here.

Generalizations are fun, aren't they? I wondered if you would get that part. I also made the generalization that most here are not as lazy as you describe them to be. Why no comment on that?

As for "burnt out", like many I went through a phase, but got over it years ago. Like many in busy urban areas, things beyond our control DO affect you. Some remain that way, some self medicate or engage in self destructive behaviors, some leave the profession completely, and others change their attitudes. I learned to adapt, get educated, understand how things work, and a stint in administration also opened my eyes to a lot of things most street level providers have never seen. Things are never as simple as they appear.

I prefer to be proactive in my own venue and use my experience and education to effect change from within. I teach, mentor, and explain why certain policies are the way they are. I dispel common and long held myths about how public safety works, citing appropriate references from my studies. I am also not arrogant enough to claim proficiency in an area I received no formal training in.

[Richard B the EMT]

Tskstorm, if I may ask, are you on an FDNY EMS ambulance, a "Vollie" unit in the NYC 9-1-1 system, a volunteer ambulance corps, or an Inter Facility Transfer type service?

And returning the same question of myself, I'm FDNY EMS (1985 to the present, but sidelined to light duty at FDNY HQ), a former volunteer ambulance corps member (Peninsula VAC, 1973-1996), and worked through 5 different IFT services from 1975-1985.

[cosgrojo]

Very few providers have the time, resources, or connections to lobby on the behalf of their profession, especially when many work OT and second jobs just to make ends meet.

Au contraire mon frere... On Saturday we had our annual 25 hour day... I hope you used the extra hour to advance EMS, and advocate for your patients.

Vent- I sincerely believe that your vision of what EMS should be is what we should all strive for (in spirit, if not in practice). You advocate education, training, well-rounded understanding of not only medicine, and emergency care, but core values of the human provider. No issue can be taken with your ideals. The thing that continues to befuddle me is the possible implementation of these ideals, and your insistence that everyone subscribe to them. Yes, change is coming, and I welcome it, it will force many a provider to poop or remove oneself from the proverbial pot. However, the changes you want are not plausible. If we all, everyone of us in EMS, increased our education 4 fold, became masters of medicine and politics, and spent the amount of time it would take to lobby and participate at local, regional, and national levels... who would work the street? Who would do the transfers? Who would respond to these Life-line calls for the quadriplegic who can't reach her glasses? Clearly not someone with the education, training, political savvy, and connection to the bourgeoisie of EMS and Medical muckity mucks.

If I decide to take the route you propose, and am successful in doing so, I'm not going to want to still ride the truck... what would be the point? Then you would decry that I was wasting all of my education and knowledge when I could be in a conference room advocating for even more change. We still need people to work the trenches. Go ahead and educate us to a higher standard, but there is nothing wrong with being happy and content with what we do. I love my job at the *gasp* Basic level, I truly feel that I make a difference every day I pull on my uniform and bend to fate's will. If I could guarantee that my aging body could continue to work on the road for the rest of my working life, I probably would, and I would probably be more inclined to raise up a couple notches on the certification hierarchy. Unfortunately for me, I see a finite road ahead of me in EMS, and I have no desire to enter the administrative world anymore.

Scoobykate, for instance had to cut her street career short because of health concerns that were out of her control. While she is continuing her love of medicine in other arenas, would she be less commendable if she pursued non-medical arenas that interest her? Of course not. While I am not trying to say that you, Vent, are implying that argument (I actually recognize that you appreciate hard work and education in all fields, not just EMS), I don't think that people that like their jobs and only do what is required of them to meet the industry standard are blights on the system. The system NEEDS them too.

Those are my thoughts... I tried so hard to stay away from this one too...

[HERBIE1]

Au contraire mon frere... On Saturday we had our annual 25 hour day... I hope you used the extra hour to advance EMS, and advocate for your patients.

Vent- I sincerely believe that your vision of what EMS should be is what we should all strive for (in spirit, if not in practice). You advocate education, training, well-rounded understanding of not only medicine, and emergency care, but core values of the human provider. No issue can be taken with your ideals. The thing that continues to befuddle me is the possible implementation of these ideals, and your insistence that everyone subscribe to them. Yes, change is coming, and I welcome it, it will force many a provider to poop or remove oneself from the proverbial pot. However, the changes you want are not plausible. If we all, everyone of us in EMS, increased our education 4 fold, became masters of medicine and politics, and spent the amount of time it would take to lobby and participate at local, regional, and national levels... who would work the street? Who would do the transfers? Who would respond to these Life-line calls for the quadriplegic who can't reach her glasses? Clearly not someone with the education, training, political savvy, and connection to the bourgeoisie of EMS and Medical muckity mucks.

If I decide to take the route you propose, and am successful in doing so, I'm not going to want to still ride the truck... what would be the point? Then you would decry that I was wasting all of my education and knowledge when I could be in a conference room advocating for even more change. We still need people to work the trenches. Go ahead and educate us to a higher standard, but there is nothing wrong with being happy and content with what we do. I love my job at the *gasp* Basic level, I truly feel that I make a difference every day I pull on my uniform and bend to fate's will. If I could guarantee that my aging body could continue to work on the road for the rest of my working life, I probably would, and I would probably be more inclined to raise up a couple notches on the certification hierarchy. Unfortunately for me, I see a finite road ahead of me in EMS, and I have no desire to enter the administrative world anymore.

Scoobykate, for instance had to cut her street career short because of health concerns that were out of her control. While she is continuing her love of medicine in other arenas, would she be less commendable if she pursued non-medical arenas that interest her? Of course not. While I am not trying to say that you, Vent, are implying that argument (I actually recognize that you appreciate hard work and education in all fields, not just EMS), I don't think that people that like their jobs and only do what is required of them to meet the industry standard are blights on the system. The system NEEDS them too.

Those are my thoughts... I tried so hard to stay away from this one too...

Well put. Just as not everyone is cut out for medical school, not everyone is cut out to rise through the ranks and become an administrator.

I equate this issue with the world of academia, a world my wife is intimately involved in, and I dabble in as adjunct faculty in a university. Many ideas come out of the hallowed halls of a university, but thankfully precious few of them are ever implemented. Why? Because they are impractical and do not take into account the problems of applying them to the real world.

The bottom line is that NOBODY is advocating disrespecting someone who is an invalid, or ignoring their needs. I simply know that I am NOT trained to be a social worker, a gerontologist, a psychologist, or a rehab expert. People spend YEARS training for these professions and I would not presume to understand the intricacies involved with addressing the needs of this population, nor would I expect someone who saw Rescue 911 to be an expert on prehospital care.

[scubanurse]

I agree we shouldn't be social workers...but part of our job is prevention is it not? Do we not help install child safety seats to protect children? Do we not go around and help check smoke detectors (my county started this last year of going door to door and checking every single smoke detector after a string of deaths related to malfunctioning smoke detectors)? Do we not have slogans to buckle up? Or wear a helmet to school aged kids? Part of our jobs is to prevent injury and death. If this also includes service calls to help someone into bed to prevent them from falling and breaking a hip or worse...then so be it. It is part of the job. If you don't like it, work to fix the system instead of complain about it. Work with the patients who call once a day or week to find a better solution. When I was in EMS we had numerous frequent fliers, whenever we did transport the patient, I would make sure the hospital got a social work consult for them. If we didn't transport and it was serious like they were falling or continuously unable to get out of bed on their own or walk to their bed then I would call the elder abuse hot line to get social services involved. Be proactive. We are often the only advocates for these patients. EMS isn't all about the glory and saving that code or running that big trauma. It's often about making a difference in peoples lives sometimes on the most basic of levels.

This isn't all to say that there isn't abuse of the system, but unless we do something to educate and solve the problem the abuse is going to continue and probably get worse.

From one urban ems'er to another thanks 'tsk' for giving ventmedic what for. We have a

ed alarm abuser that has been know to press it 3-5 times a day. Medics have "damaged his alarm box" and used all means possible but the ems higher ups have yet to do there job and get him in a nursing home. This pt doesnt need our respect or lessons on being disabled he needs to stop abusing the system.

This is just one example of abuse. Thankfully you didnt need ems tonight where we ran for 2 hrs constantly out of squads.

WOAH... I just saw this...

When is it EVER okay to damage an alarm box for a patient???? It's the Boy Who Cried Wolf Story...and in my eyes as the patient...they have every right to sue those medics!

Also, why is it the higher ups job to get them into a nursing home...why not be proactive and take the steps yourself?? Patients always need our respect. Unless you yourself have been disabled and faced what they face you have no right to judge them and treat them with a lack of respect.

[rock_shoes]

So much for this thread being a good fit for the "funny stuff" forum! That said I do think it's still salvageable. I think we could have some truly beneficial discussion over the subject of "Lifeline Calls". I'll start.

Not too long ago I took a lifeline call at 0300 for a diabetic patient. On arrival we quickly discovered the patient was not experiencing any kind of immediate life threat. This particular old-timer was concerned his BGL might be too high or too low. He had recently acquired a new glucometer and, being illiterate, could not figure out how to make the machine work. For the sake of being a thorough provider I completed a set of vitals including BGL. Having put the gentleman's mind at ease regarding his BGL he promptly refused transport. Do you know what I did instead of leaving immediately after receiving a patient refusal? I programmed the patient's glucometer for him. Then I showed him how to use it. It took me a whole ten minutes and guess what? We haven't been back to this gentleman's residence for anything but real medical emergencies since. Sometimes reducing the number of non essential calls your service does is as simple as spending an extra ten minutes with your patients to make them informed users of the service.

[scubanurse]

Sometimes reducing the number of non essential calls your service does is as simple as spending an extra ten minutes with your patients to make them informed users of the service.

I am with you completely on that...and I think that's what Vent has been trying to say. By caring for your patient and taking the time to program it and show them how to use it, you have avoided further "abuse." Now if only more people would take the time to educate their patients instead of blow them off as abusing the system...

[tskstorm]

Tskstorm, if I may ask, are you on an FDNY EMS ambulance, a "Vollie" unit in the NYC 9-1-1 system, a volunteer ambulance corps, or an Inter Facility Transfer type service?

And returning the same question of myself, I'm FDNY EMS (1985 to the present, but sidelined to light duty at FDNY HQ), a former volunteer ambulance corps member (Peninsula VAC, 1973-1996), and worked through 5 different IFT services from 1975-1985.

A "Vollie" unit in FDNY's sandbox. I work for Metro.

I agree we shouldn't be social workers...but part of our job is prevention is it not? Do we not help install child safety seats to protect children? Do we not go around and help check smoke detectors (my county started this last year of going door to door and checking every single smoke detector after a string of deaths related to malfunctioning smoke detectors)? Do we not have slogans to buckle up? Or wear a helmet to school aged kids?

Nope .. never done anything like that, too busy responding to calls. Nope no slogans.

__________________

As a matter of fact, could you imagine how long it would take to check everyone's smoke detector in NYC ..... would take years to get through them ... and by the time you finished it would be time to start again ...

Edited November 2, 2009 by tskstorm

[scubanurse]

I'm sorry you're too busy to do any sort of prevention. It has always been a priority of the county I worked in to do preventative activities for the community. And we are a busy county in the suburbs of D.C. Even DCFD is doing preventative care. We perhaps aren't as busy as you, but don't you think it might be a good idea to help prevent emergencies? We do it on off-duty days, we have task forces to do car seat checks to make sure they are installed properly. You seemed pretty dismissive of the idea to do preventative care, but that is your prerogative.

Edited November 2, 2009 by scoobykate