Your typical Lifeline call

[tskstorm]

See now, you can take a few words out of the context of the entire statement and score "points" in the debate. You would score a lot more points if you attempt to understand the meaning of the entire post in the context of the discussion. You are upset with the tone of Vent's posts. Matty is suggesting you look beyond that tone and perhaps learn and grow. Fundamentally, that is what this site is for. The lady knows waaaaaaaaay more than you do about respiratory pathology AND has spent more years than you've been alive trying to get to real solutions to the delivery of emergency health problems. Use the information to become a better provider.

I'm sure she knows more about respiratory pathology then I do ... Why is that relevant to this thread?

If she lost the tone, I think more would be willing to accept what she says, and have an opportunity to learn from them, as a rule I usually skip over her posts because I don't like the tone.

She may very well have spent a lot of time trying to improve her system she is involved in ... No one is taking that from her, I hope she continues helping her system.

I still do not, and can not agree there is justification for life line any other system similar to life line, or even the geriatric community calling 9-1-1 because their milk is sour, can't find their glasses, etc...

[Kaisu]

I'm sure she knows more about respiratory pathology then I do ... Why is that relevant to this thread?

It's relevant to any thread she chooses to reply to in that, at the risk of repeating myself yet again, you can learn something.

If she lost the tone, I think more would be willing to accept what she says, and have an opportunity to learn from them, as a rule I usually skip over her posts because I don't like the tone.

There will be a lot of good information coming from people whose "tone" you may not like. Get over it - put on some big boy pants and read material that may not be fun, or ego stroking, or make you feel warm all over.

I still do not, and can not agree there is justification for life line any other system similar to life line, or even the geriatric community calling 9-1-1 because their milk is sour, can't find their glasses, etc...

And if you had read Vent's posts with an open mind, you would understand by this late date in this thread that the woman is trying to give you information that;

1- gives you perspective on the big picture - re: the fact that these people need something, and inadequate as it is, 911 is what they got. So sorry that not all calls are codes or major gory traumas or challenging to you or even fun. What else would you be doing anyway? recliner time?

and 2 - gives you some ways to begin thinking about the solution as opposed to just plain whining about it.

[tskstorm]

1- gives you perspective on the big picture - re: the fact that these people need something, and inadequate as it is, 911 is what they got. So sorry that not all calls are codes or major gory traumas or challenging to you or even fun. What else would you be doing anyway? recliner time?

As I said earlier which you obviously didn't bother reading ... 3500 calls a day Average day is 12 calls in 12 hours, with each job lasting 50-60 min, the assorted few minutes in between goes to restocking and other admin.

The only place we sit even if there are 0 calls is in the ambulance on the street corner waiting to go. There is no fire house or station, there is no TV or BBQ etc...

I don't need a gory trauma or a code to justify the purpose of using 9-1-1. Every call has its own challenges, ie: not being like the idiot's who broke a patients lifeline box regardless of how ridiculous the current call is. It's a challenge not to get upset with the misuse of the system, its a challenge to remember its the system, not the user.

To repeat and quote myself,"I still do not, and can not agree there is justification for life line any other system similar to life line, or even the geriatric community calling 9-1-1 because their milk is sour, can't find their glasses, etc..."

[VentMedic]

I'm sure she knows more about respiratory pathology then I do ... Why is that relevant to this thread?

If she lost the tone, I think more would be willing to accept what she says, and have an opportunity to learn from them, as a rule I usually skip over her posts because I don't like the tone.

She may very well have spent a lot of time trying to improve her system she is involved in ... No one is taking that from her, I hope she continues helping her system.

I still do not, and can not agree there is justification for life line any other system similar to life line, or even the geriatric community calling 9-1-1 because their milk is sour, can't find their glasses, etc...

So I am not allowed to have a tone but herb can?

You don't have to read my posts. However, you should not criticize patient care issues that you do not have much information about or very experience with.

I could have bet my mortgage you would respond to this with a holier-than-thou post.

You did not disappoint.

Do you require people to avert their gaze when they meet you?

Just wondering.

Herbie has taken this to a very personal level and has bashed me on almost every thread I have posted on this forum for the past year. So yes, my tone with him will be cold. And yes, when I am discussing various quotes from the literature and formulas, the post is dry and not exactly warm and fuzzy. I also don't care to dumb down all of my posts as there are mature and intelligent people on this forum who can handle a discussion that is full of medical, government and welfare issues.

We have had numerous discussions here about treating and leaving patients at scene but yet some are not willing to even tell the ED RN to check the "consult Social Sevices" box on his/her paperwork or fill out a little piece of paper in the ED. Thus, it appears some are not ready for EMS providers to take the next step in the numerous health care issues this country has and it isn't because of inadequate training but more the attitudes that continue to prevail. Thus, instead of being a health care provider, some will always have the "tech" mentality of just doing A task. Eventually, EMS providers will be recognized as health care professionals but there will always be those opposed to change and will continue to just destroy the patient's equipment rarely than doing a little "thinking" to find the correct channels to find a solution. Of course once one has destroyed the patient's LifeLine property, you can not follow the correct channels to correct anything. For this reason some in EMS will always have recipes to follow instead of guidelines. For some, there will also always be a union to tell you how to vote or think a certain way.

[tskstorm]

His tone in his comments towards you may not be appropriate either, now we are making the thread about something unrelated.

To say I don't have information on, or experience with anything is very poor judgment on your part. You have no way of knowing what I know or what I have experience with. As I do not know of you. If you make this assumption based on forum posts, well its just a poor idea.

____________________

Thread is dead to me. There is nothing good to come of anything else said.

Let it fade to the depths.

Edited November 5, 2009 by tskstorm

[VentMedic]

His tone in his comments towards you may not be appropriate either, now we are making the thread about something unrelated.

____________________

Thread is dead to me. There is nothing good to come of anything else said.

Let it fade to the depths.

Avoidance of addressing issues concerning everyday healthcare situations do not make them go away. Every other profession has had to expand their knowledge, education, roles and ways of thinking to meet the challenges.

[tskstorm]

Avoidance of addressing issues concerning everyday healthcare situations do not make them go away. Every other profession has had to expand their knowledge, education, roles and ways of thinking to meet the challenges.

Last post edited, and the avoidance began with you talking about herbies tone instead of responding to the content.

[cosgrojo]

Despite the apparent tonal issues in this thread, I think that some very good points were raised on both sides. Now I'm certainly not trying to play impartial moderator because I clearly come down on one side more than the other. While I have, in the past, interpreted Vent's "tone" as anti EMS provider... I have come to the conclusion that I think it is more accurate to describe it as anti "bad" EMS provider. This I can not have an issue with, for I dislike bad providers as well. I still disagree with some of her arguments... just don't care whether the argument carries a tone or not. I myself have been guilty of over-toning my posts, so I suppose it would be disingenuous of me to take exception.

I think that it should not be the jobs of EMS to play Monday morning social worker. We are ill equipped for it in experience, education, and not to mention the time it takes to accomplish this. However, I also agree that it is incumbent on EMS'ers to properly nudge people in the right direction. Make the proper referrals and recommendations to the patients, family, and staff. If we see something that could be fixed, and we know who is supposed to fix it, we should notify those people. I've done these things dozens of times over the years, and they can be done within the framework of the call without much effort or wasted time. That's were it should end though. We shouldn't get any more involved... I think it blurs the line of what our purpose is, provide pre-hospital emergency care.

I don't want to be a social worker, so I would prefer that my job not expect me to be one. This does not make me an insensitive beast (I don't think), but it does make me someone who knows his current limitations.

[scubanurse]

I really think it is time for this to drift off into the archives of the city... it's just gone down hill and emotions seem to be running high.

[VentMedic]

Last post edited, and the avoidance began with you talking about herbies tone instead of responding to the content.

Out of all the posts with many paragraphs in each that I have writen in response to the topic you only saw one sentence?

I don't want to be a social worker, so I would prefer that my job not expect me to be one. This does not make me an insensitive beast (I don't think), but it does make me someone who knows his current limitations.

Correct.

No one is telling anyone to do what a Social Worker does. In fact, I doubt if some actually know what a Social Worker does or how many different health care professionals it takes to get one patient into a home care situation.

However, some in EMS believe they do know more than any of the Social Workers or other health care professionals by their rants at the station and on the many threads on the many EMS forums. Yet, few will offer up anything or just dummy up when it counts at the ED or other area of the hospital and cop a "not a Social Worker" or "not my job" attitude. If you know something, some input could be beneficial to get the patient re-evaluated for a more appropriate living situation. If the patient doesn't at least get placed on the radar for tracking, situations causing the complaints will continue.

Of course for some there might be a credibility issue as the EDs often hear a few EMS providers whine about every patient they bring in regardless of how sick and injured.

Edited November 6, 2009 by VentMedic