Alberta Bill 60

[xlq771]

Has anyone heard anything about the status of Bill 60? My understanding is that the bill will change the titles used in Alberta to PCP, ACP, etc.

[mobey]

Has anyone heard anything about the status of Bill 60? My understanding is that the bill will change the titles used in Alberta to PCP, ACP, etc.

First I've heard of it, although I am interested.

I mentioned this to Renee Linsen at the last AoCP AGM and he basically told me "I am not sure if that will happen, or if everyone else will start using our titles" referring to the old EMT/EMT-P.

Ya.... right Renee....... the rest of CANADA will revert back to the OLD names to try keep up with Alberta's progression

I gotta say though.... Renee is a nice guy, I would throw back a few cold ones with him anyday... but he is a polititian.

The bill will have my support.

[tniuqs]

Hell Not MINE mobey and your where in your program again, graduation from your class and then having to explain the difference in the Paramedic Levels to the Public WILL change your opinion is my bet, the public respects the EMT and they DO understand the title difference, this would IMHO a huge step back, just look to PAC AIT reciprocity tool and compare other provinces in scope of practice. So I ask xlq771 just what member MLA introduced this Bill because this is also the first time I have heard of it, and I do have a phone and many, many that would oppose this waste of public money(s) and to what end ?

A different patch for the EMT and ALL AHC units saying PARAMEDIC on the side of the truck ... FAIL HUGE.

Just look what BC government did to it the title (and other provinces) So the public has no idea what they care level they are actually recieving. The original intent of title protection should remain and we should move upward not be dictated by government as this is their plan, the concept of a self regulation professional body ACoP has become joke, were you sleeping when Pierre and Rene debated then there was that other crazy person too (called good cop bad cop) Honestly actions prove far louder than words when most of the silent majority turned a blind eye with these bylaw changes that have COMPLETELY removed any viable democratic process for self regulation.

To advance this profession lets work on having the CCP level recognized FIRST or perhaps REMOTE or PRACTITIONER as per Lieperts crack pipe dreaming (more like blowing smoke) Acceptance of CCP well now that would be an accomplishment we are far behind Ontario now, so sheesh and why would that be then perhaps working on gap fiasco, trying to comply with the government mandated HPA perhaps and screwing up on so many level's brother mobey have you completed YOUR CIMS yet ? for EMT ? heck just wait till you have to play that Paramedic game, in need of CISM post entry.

Rene L. our grand leader who btw has lost all respect in my eyes with all his politicking circle talking divesting from PAC and immediatly resulted in a halt in any national lobbying we cut them off at the knees with the huge investment amouting to $15.00 per year (he has to be held accountable for that huge step back)or should we call him President Paramedic? OR just the BAND AID that he is.

So on that note perhaps we should change the title protection to include the EMR and call that level PARAMEDIC TOO ? that said regulating that level was COMPLETE and UTTER NONSENSE and a power play ... just look what it resulted in, need I say more, really?

NOW Only 3 out of 9 on the council (last count) are actually graduates of a Paramedic program, and 1 with restricted licensure, so just a historical perspective AB in the past WAS the Leader of the pack and PAC now look where were we are, nodda with pending plan's to do the same thing as they have in BC, mandate OT, mandate working and not being included in Public Health Priority Protection :

FYI:

CANADA NEWS

** Like just about everywhere else in the country, Comox Valley, BC paramedics are being told to wait to get Swine Flu shots. A News (November 5) said medics have been deemed low priority by government bean counters, despite their continued exposure to flu patients. Paramedic Shop Steward Bill Coltart said the policy is inexplicable, given that at least one area medic has already booked off with flu like symptoms. The practitioner in question had treated and transported a confirmed H1N1 patient last week. The bum’s rush on vaccinations is only fueling providers’ ire in a week that has seen the government promise to legislate striking medics back to work. At least one MLA, however, is supporting EMS workers. Bob Simpson, who represents Cariboo North, criticized the government Thursday for failing to develop a vaccination plan for practitioners. Canada’s decision to bump emergency responders from the priority list in in stark contrast to most US jurisdictions which are placing paramedics first in line for inoculations. In New York, for example, all 14,000 city EMTs and firefighters are being given the vaccine over the next four days. The New York Daily News (Samuel Goldsmith/November 5) quoted Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scopetta as saying the move is simply common sense.

ps I bet if You tip one with Rene and he picks up the tab, well you and I will actually be paying for it and our dues will increase accordingly.

cheers

Edited November 7, 2009 by tniuqs

[mobey]

My how I love to ruffle your feathers now and again buddy!!

You and I have discussed this topic in the past, and there is just no agreeing. I am bred in Sask where the change has already been made and I see no real downfall.

As I have said in the past, we need to be thinking on an international scheme, not just Ab. Do you really want to hold the same titles as the EMT ('s in SOME of the states and countries?

OKOK, Ab's EMT program is still a joke (overall as compared to many other provinces), but there is still a distinct difference between our (Canada's) PCP program, and the basic EMT program outside our country.

Let's be honest, the general public has no idea what level of service they have, als, bls, wha?? "I dunno, I call an ambulance and the paramedics come... uhh.... emt's.... uhh emr's...."

Yes I am nearly done my program but my tune has not changed, nor will it (I think), We have Canadian competency standards that surpass all others (Hmm... all, I dunno, but most) and we should be damn proud of that. On an international level we should gloat about the fact that we "have no EMT's in Canada" and our 'Basic' level is PCP (gotta get rid of them EMR's though).

Like I said, I have nothing bad to say about Renee.

'Reminder' I write a registration exam soon

Ohhh.... you know I agree on the failures of ACoP, I wish i could have been here when it was a new entity and we really were self governed.

just look to PAC AIT reciprocity tool and compare other provinces in scope of practice.

That is the failure of Ab EMS.

Widest scope of practice.... shortest program.

To get to the same scope of practice as Ab has, I had to take over a year of education in Sask (intermediate Care Paramedic), who would you rather have attending to your community.

The generic argument to staying with the old titles is always the same, "We are better than them, we have a wider scope of practice".

I know I don't need to point out the holes in that statement in the company this forum carries.

[tniuqs]

Democracy to be considered a True Democracy MUST have a viable motivated opposition to represent the people its just that simple, ACoP er AB government has usurped that basic right to self governance/association under the guise of a regulatory body besides force us to pay for it too!

What scares me the most about the last post you made is this, Brother your mind is being controlled as a Registered Member you are allowed your voice, your opinion thats the way it works or past tense did work and my entire point of my post.

Like I said, I have nothing bad to say about Renee.'Reminder' I write a registration exam soon

The comparison between level of care vs title protection AB is way ahead thank God, We did it right way back then.

So why reinvent the wheel, so with a supposed new Bill 60 will it just result in waste of public money(s) and to what end ?

I must reiterate: Just a different patch for the EMT and ALL AHC units saying PARAMEDIC on the side of the truck ... FAIL HUGE.

Let's be honest, the general public has no idea what level of service they have, als, bls, wha??

BING thats the point THEY DO they all watched Gage and Desoto on TV 30+ years ago ... when it says Paramedic on the truck or the Patch that is the publics expectation.

Don't side track this with them vs us thread thats where we continue to fail but the undermining of a Nation Group to represent the interests of ALL it is not just a FAIL its PITIFUL. look beyond the ACoP box and look to solidarity of RNs or FF NATIONALLY and it becomes more than crystal clear.

cheers

[mobey]

What scares me the most about the last post you made is this, Brother your mind is being controlled as a Registered Member you are allowed your voice, your opinion thats the way it works or past tense did work and my entire point of my post.

Yes, DID work.

Now some of my opinions will be witheld due to fear of reprecussions from the almighty.

There is a reason Rene wanted me to come have a 1on1 with him to discuss the computer based training flop, and the budget accompanying it. Seems my convo's with a former staff member may have rattled the young polititian.

I must reiterate: Just a different patch for the EMT and ALL AHC units saying PARAMEDIC on the side of the truck ... FAIL HUGE.

There is that agree to disagree point again.

BING thats the point THEY DO they all watched Gage and Desoto on TV 30+ years ago

Wha? Who?? Gage?? LOL

I would hate to base anything current on a 30 year old TV show. I think "Situation critical" does a good job of advertising for us and they are all called "Paramedics" even though they are PCP's, my point is, I hold my opinion on this topic based on my personal experience. The only people who know the difference are the ones paying the wages, are in the buisness, or have a relative in the buisness (in my experience).

Don't side track this with them vs us thread thats where we continue to fail but the undermining of a Nation Group to represent the interests of ALL it is not just a FAIL its PITIFUL.

i don't really understand that statement.

look beyond the ACoP box and look to solidarity of RNs or FF NATIONALLY and it becomes more than crystal clear.

Funny you should mention these other entities.

Whether RN, SCN, LPN, RN-Practitioner, etc etc. They are all known as "Nurse" to the public...... and it works!

Whether FF, Leiutenant, Captain, DC, FireMedic, etc etc, they are all know as "Firefighter" to the public....... and it works!

Why must we break down our titles?

Edited November 7, 2009 by mobey

[Quakefire]

Alright, as far as the rest of the country using the Saskatchewan is only partway there. While my certificate says I am trained as a Primary Care Paramedic, I am unable to use that title, or be licensed as such. Now in protocol there is a difference between an EMT and a PCP trained EMT, just like there will be a difference when they drop the ICP(EMT-A) title and make them into EMT's again. All of our units say Paramedic across the side, as far as the public is concerned, do you think they should turn down a BLS crew and tell them to send a Paramedic? What the public needs to know is that no matter who shows up at their front door that they will be receiving highly trained care. Mobey has a point in saying that our PCP program provides alot of education, and we have national standards. Why shouldn't we want to show that we stand out? I understand that it takes alot of time, and alot of work to become a Paramedic, and the respect the title should bring, but I think we need to be more worried about respect for EMS as a whole.

And for the record, I think EMR's belong in rural services as first responders while waiting for an ambulance, you should never call 911 and get a car with 2 emrs.

I am an EMT (PCP) so I may be biased. I dont have lines, I have very few drugs, and I admit that my scope isn't as big as it is in other places, but I do feel that based on the amount of education we receive the "Primary Care" title is appropriate, just like with all the extra education an ACP receives, a title of "Advanced Care" fits.

[tniuqs]

Whether RN, SCN, LPN, RN-Practitioner, etc etc. They are all known as "Nurse" to the public...... and it works!

Whether FF, Leiutenant, Captain, DC, FireMedic, etc etc, they are all know as "Firefighter" to the public....... and it works!

Firstly so you agree you hold your tongue based on fear of repercussion.

But Good point(s) but so does EMT and Paramedic or Police Officer, and internationally only in some provinces does the term PCP even exist and primarily because funding an intermediate level instead of the real thing, if there even is a bill 60 this will only waste taxpayers money ... the name change reason being why again ?

The next point would be why are these accepted groups so successful, because they have reciprocity and nationally very strong affiliations.

Question: Do we have that now ? well not with the last power play.

You know mobey that we have all been beaten in this you will never see my face at an AGM again, 100 members representing 7000 ? Bylaws giving all power to the Council, there is no self governance thats a joke.

But: Thing is there is an election coming soon and if one does not believe that things politically will change radically well all I will say is best be aware the Alberta Wild rose is on its way.

cheers.

[kevkei]

Bill 60 See "5 Schedule 18 is amended in section 2" on page 4 of the PDF.

Health Professions Act

See - Page 159 - Part 10 Profession‑Specific Provisions Schedule 18 - Profession of Paramedics

It appears they are amending the HPA to allow the inclusion of PCP, ACP and CCP as titles able to be used, not to replace previous titles EMT, EMT-P, etc. (Formatting and emphasis mine)

Schedule 18, section 2 presently reads:

2 A regulated member of the Alberta College of Paramedics may, as authorized by the regulations, use the following titles, abbreviations and initials:

(a) emergency medical responder;

( b ) emergency medical technician;

(c ) emergency medical technologist-paramedic;

(c.1) emergency medical technologist-paramedic (critical care

paramedic);

(f) EMR;

(g) EMT;

(h) EMT-P;

(i) EMT-P (CCP).

(c.7) provisional advanced care paramedic;

(c.8) provisional critical care paramedic;

( c ) by adding the following after clause (i): (* This is the amendment)

(j) PCP;

(k) ACP;

(l) CCP;

(m) provisional EMR;

(n) provisional EMT;

(o) provisional EMT-P;

(p) provisional PCP;

(q) provisional ACP;

( r ) provisional CCP.

[tniuqs]

Thanks Kev, very interesting stuff and thanks for all the leg work.

Next question when was College of Paramedics approved under HPA ? I can't find any correspondence in my files from ACoP, perhaps living in a cave does not help. http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/pages/home/default.aspx

Health Professions Act

See - Page 159 - Part 10 Profession‑Specific Provisions Schedule 18 - Profession of Paramedics

Could it be applied legislation before due process and note:

Has Bill 60 passed in the legislature (note there is no DATE) on this legislation, the cart before the legal horse ?

Bill 60 See "5 Schedule 18 is amended in section 2" on page 4 of the PDF.

But sincere thanks for the contact: of Mr Quest, I will be contacting and for public disclosure for the costs related under the FOIP act. perhaps David Swann is too busy with H1N1 ?

It appears they are amending the HPA to allow the inclusion of PCP, ACP and CCP as titles able to be used, not to replace previous titles EMT, EMT-P, etc

I certainly would like to see the criteria for CCP and / or scope of practice as you may know the membership has been informed that this title has been protected yet remains undefined, I am confused so does that mean that an ONT CCP can just walk in and take a flight job away from an EMT-P AB registered Member because they will work for less and are more qualified?

All this when there is very close to a hiring freeze for UNA ? or AHS ?

Fact: because in the Industrial sector there is a ton of non-registered AB so called PCP/ACP out there TODAY, Oh yes there are and are signed off with Medical Directors, perhaps paid off maybe to undercut and increase profit margin ? Thanks to Oh+S new amendments and NO thanks to ACoP as they can ONLY regulate registered members ... ah the plot thickens.

So the alphabet soup begins and where just are my CCP patches again I love patches. No wait I could make a ton of money making and selling Patches ... maybe this is the AB way to stimulate the Economy ?

cheers

Oh and for debate sake Quakefire:

This is the SASK definition of Primary Care .... curious is it not:

http://www.medicine.usask.ca/research/health-research-groups/primary-health-care-research-group-1/definition-of-primary-health-care

Edited November 7, 2009 by tniuqs