BC Paramedics Legislated Into Contract Extension

[tniuqs]

Sorry Tniuqs after living in Rob Anders riding most of my life I refuse to give the conservative party any of my money at any level (even 10 bucks) I keep my money with the greens because they have yet to screw me over (they will eventually, its politics) and the fact that I like to breath, might be alot of COPD coming down the line for us, but thats another topic

I do have a question though, and this would go to any of the people here, would you sign a letter stating your support for the staff of BCAS, or keep your name anonymous for fear of reprocussions? I have heard talk around here of "conduct unbecomming....'

On to the COPD comment that could be misconstrued as conduct unbecoming in itself, almost sound as vengeance shall be mine, although I do know you.

NO WAY if anyone required your services and no matter what walk of life one comes from YOU would do your best ... even though your a PCP

Picking on the those with nicotine addictions will result in another FAIL.

Do you know where the MLA Health Critic is located, ever drop in and have a camp fire chat?

So you would not use 10 bucks to affect change and improve service model, seriously dude / dudette one must distance themselves emotionally, that said:

Use it when in a town hall type meeting remember the press is always present and if one is not present one has no voice. FACT is in Canada there has always been Private and Public Health care, its a fact jack and according to Preston Manning as soon as one presents that a topic private vs public it polarizes the entire audience, might as well spend the 10 bucks in the bar.

Clears throat, finds soap box.

Just myself when discussing for example response timesor improved delivery of ALS Care break down the statistics to the personal level if one wishes to hit home I have used the: So "What if that was your (Daughter, Mother, Son) lying in a snowbank injured .... Respectfully: as a health professional I have observed too many people suffer for extended periods of time and get very frustrated that I cannot provide the level of care that is optimal for survival.

Use the pregnant pause its a great tool in debate ... one know's if you have the audience's ear and hanging on your words.

Ok so this is one strategy, the break it down to their constituents level and it also infers that you have suffered emotional trauma try it and see if any regulatory body would not just run and hide, you have inferred and a great defense if it does receive a complaint and "damages to yourself" the very last thing they want is more legal consult costs ... yes really.

It will be very interesting if Danny Williams uses the same "essential services" clause I am watching for public release in Neufie land like a hawk, we had a member from NFLD that would be far better to hear a member of this board to comment just as rock_shoes has done in BC.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/11/09/nl-ambulance-091109.html

FAIL HUGE withdrawal of services and you piss off the very voters your trying to gain support from, The ON STRIKE that BC guys used on the trucks gains National attention on every TV incident ... brilliant really, they did not withdraw services or a do a slow down.

IN AB because one can access "government spending" I will be waiting to compare the cost of our "EMS transition" model to previous funding model (municipalities) and we know what the outcome will be restructure a entire Health Care System during a down turn in the economy

Edited November 10, 2009 by tniuqs

[rock_shoes]

Does your union have no political connections? My union uses Firepac $$'s, which is only 5 bucks out of each check (voluntary) to assist with lobbying, campaign contributions for politicians that are sympathetic to our needs, PSA's and such. We also participate in numerous charities, both because we generally want to, as well as the great PR that we receive. It works exceddingly well here.

We are affiliated with the BC Federation of Labour which is having its annual meeting this month. We are certain to be the topic of the year this time around. We are also but one local within CUPE (the Canadian Union of Public Employees) which represents over 600000 workers across Canada. There are many letters going out and phone calls being made right now rest assured. I can’t say much more than that regarding further action for the moment.

Ah Comrade Campbell ... making friends everywhere ... just wait till the final tab of the Olympics comes in, funny, did we not have one of those in Calgary a couple of years ago.

No have to build all the venues x 2 when one can fly in a hour or drive in 12 ... just ask the VANOC what it cost to send a candle 5500 kms ?

Heres a question did all of BCAS get innoculated (priority HCW and frontline) cough, cough I think I am feeling sick, with no IFS reported, nor swabs nor tracking being done ... just saying look at Calgary FF Police and EMS sick time my bet is its hitting the government in the pocket book.

cheers

I know for a fact that not all paramedics in BC have had the H1N1 vaccine made available to them yet. I also know that virology is so backed up it will be next year before we know which patients actually had H1N1. The most insulting part is the fact the H1N1 was the primary excuse behind Bill 21. We never left work you idiots (meaning the BC government not the folks here at EMTcity).

Quick Everyone To Your MP Before Your Next!

Why bother with negotiation and mediation when instead you can force legislation instead!

With no actual danger to the public, how are they justifying this act? By the Energy minister going "everyone gave it a good try"? Police and Fire get binding arbitration and EMS gets law makers forcing a new contract, at least until after the games.

This is ridiculous, for once the feds should step in and slap some sense into BC

I wish they would slap some sense into Campbell and his ilk. Unfortunately I don’t think the Feds have any jurisdiction in these matters until such time as it’s proven Bill 21 violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It’s only a matter of time and court proceedings, but we all know how fast the courts move.

Well if BCAS does not win the appeal then just where did I sign on the dotted line my Canadian Rights and Freedoms away when I put on a Hi Vis Jacket ? Its politics plain and simple the games not over till all the VOTES are counted.

If one looks to the strong UNIONs in BC I believe Campbell is asking for a general strike, he sent the message to FF and RNs with this.

cheers

I’m not going to say much about this one. Plausible deniability and all.

Yeah Know thats an DAMN GOOD IDEA !

rock_shoes you provide us the MP and I will compose a letter and get a list of my AB fiends to sign.

Hey stubble jumper ... you in ?

cheers

My MP is actually Stockwell Day. No doubt one of Harper’s inner circle MPs. I have a few letters to send out myself. Not to worry he will be one of many recipients.

The problem with writing his MP is that your votes dont count to him so he wont care. If you write your MP you can express your concern as an EMS provider that BC is setting a dangerous precedent for ambulance services everywhere. Just a thought, other wise i'll sign that letter (as a former Albertan)

I like your thought process. I think every MP in BC will soon be the recipient of a well thought out letter. This is actually an excellent opportunity for paramedics across Canada to stand together. This is the kind of thing that could either bring us together or render us asunder indefinitely.

It appears Job action is becoming Pandemic in Kanukistan, from sea to shining sea ..

West Coast (tree huggers rights stomped on) now on the East Coast, (Lord Thundering the Neufies were born to be street fighters)

Looks we need to throw them a life line or perhaps a bottle of screech in the mix and it will become this a back room brawl.

cheers

I’d be proud to stand with my Newfie brothers/sisters. Hell I’ll even forgive them for drinking Screech! Besides we aren’t all tree huggers out west. We’re equal parts redneck too. No wonder politics out here are so screwed up eh!

Ed

[tniuqs]

My MP is actually Stockwell Day

Ah an old friend ... sweet, he knows me by my first name with the Long Gun Registry .

I KNOW the Feds have jurisdiction over Bill 21 it does violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

As IF EMS would ever walk OUT en mass we aint the ferry workers or the postal workers

Gorden Campbell do yourself a favour and please remove: HEAD FROM RECTUM.

Edited November 11, 2009 by tniuqs

[rock_shoes]

Ah an old friend ... sweet, he knows me by my first name with the Long Gun Registry .

Squint you can have him back! I don’t want him.

I KNOW the Feds have jurisdiction over Bill 21 it does violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

You’re absolutely right. I just think it’s going to be impossible to motivate the Feds until such time as this violation is validated in court.

As IF EMS would ever walk OUT en mass we aint the ferry workers or the postal workers

I don’t think we should just up and walk out en mass. I think we need to speak up on each other’s behalf with one clear collective voice.

Gorden Campbell do yourself a favour and please remove: HEAD FROM RECTUM.

Motion seconded!

Ed

[tniuqs]

I don’t think we should just up and walk out en mass. I think we need to speak up on each other’s behalf with one clear collective voice.

see last post http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/topic/16836-alberta-bill-60/page__st__40__gopid__229237&#entry229237

The provincial government has forced an end to the ambulance paramedic's legal strike following an overnight session Friday in the B.C. Legislature. But at least one Cowichan Valley paramedic says it's not over yet. "It's far from over," he said upon condition of anonymity. "It's going to get worse -- and it's going to get worse for smaller communities like this one." The final vote took place early Saturday morning despite a four-day battle by the Opposition NDP to stop Bill 21 -- the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. Bill 21 ends the essential service order that forced paramedics to work, which means in many cases there will be even fewer paramedics on call than deemed necessary to maintain essential service levels. Nanaimo-Cowichan MLA Doug Routley said Bill 21 is "a brutal way to deal with people we owe so much to," and the decision to pass it has "completely destroyed" any sense of good will between the government and paramedics. "It's really unfortunate what's happened. The government had five months to negotiate but they dragged their feet," said Routley. "The paramedics begged them to appoint an arbitrator, which could have arrived at a fair solution." Routley said the move was the first time in Canadian history that the government has forced its public employees back to work while the workers are in the middle of voting on a contract offer from that same government.

"And they've used flimsy excuses," said Routley. For example, the H1N1 pandemic. "They won't even put the paramedics themselves as priority for vaccinations," he said. The Cowichan paramedic agreed.

"H1N1 has been a concern for months but really it doesn't affect us so much," he said. "It's an overall general public thing. If anything, with people being more informed, the news is saying: don't go to the hospital, so we're seeing probably even less calls because of that." Both maintain the Olympics likely have a lot to do with how the situation played out and why they'll be in the same situation after the Games are complete. "Really what's behind this, we believe, are the demands of VANOC," said Routley. "The Olympics are an important thing so we don't know why the government would be embarrassed to say 'gee we've got to do something in time for the Olympics,' but they've hidden their motive." The contract the government has imposed ends on March 31 -- just over a week after the end of the Paralympic Games in Vancouver.

Imposing Bill 21 is in poor taste, said Routley."We believe this step -- as unprecedented as it is, is a transgression of our international obligations under the National Labour Organization," said Routley. "At a time when we're inviting the world to British Columbia, we should be taking the extra step to honour our international agreements." Routley said throughout the night from about 7:30 p.m. Friday until 8:30 a.m. Saturday morning the Legislature's gallery was full of paramedics. "They were there to witness it," he said. What the province may be forced to witness now is the exodus of some of the best essential service providers.

"Now people are fed up and they are leaving," said the Cowichan paramedic. "Through the whole thing the paramedics have been pretty good," he said. "They're a pretty passive group. They're not militants, generally speaking. This is the first I've seen that they're starting to get pretty upset by things." He said it all could have been avoided by some reasonable negotiation. "Every other emergency service has independent binding arbitration. That's all we asked for. They won't do it."

© Copyright © Canwest News Service

[rock_shoes]

see last post http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/topic/16836-alberta-bill-60/page__st__40__gopid__229237&#entry229237

I like it! A society advocating for paramedic working conditions, education etc. funded by the whackers among us? I see no fault with this plan. Squint gets a pension, we all get an advocacy group, and everyone wins.

It looks like the wheels are starting to fall off for BCAS management. Funny how cars go unstaffed during flu season when a company loses the ability to force overtime and treats its employees like garbage. More and more people are working only their scheduled shifts for reasons of their own. The truth is that people are not abandoning shifts. The tap is simply running dry because we're burnt out.

B.C. Ambulance warns of delays due to staff shortages

Edited November 14, 2009 by rock_shoes

[Happiness]

One thing that I hope all of us who are involved is to remember that we do this because we like to help. It is a natural ability not one that you learn in the class room. If we start acting like the government and not do our jobs in good faith where will it get us. It will give us the bad name in the province not the government. If we stop manning our cars unless your going to Falcons or Campbell house we are just hurting those who need us. I have personally had to sit and wait for an ambulance for a loved one and it is the most disheartning feeling in the world, thinking help is comming and it dosnt for 2 hrs. (my loved one died in front of us).

I agree dont do the overtime or the little extra things we do, our management are medics they can do it. Please put aside your own anger and remember the family member that comes up to you with the tears in their eyes to say thank you for saving their loved one. Thats what makes this job worth while.

I sent to my MLA the story of why I became a paramedic and I have asked for it to be sent to those who need to know what we actually do and to remind them that in small towns like ours what we give up for our community. My self I have for most of the past 14 years given up part of my Christmas day with my family. Maybe everyone else could do the same thing. I always hear write your MLA and I finally did so I will let you know how that goes. One good thing is that my MLA is not a liberal.

Be safe and always be prepared out there, and remember two wrongs don't make a right.

Happy

Edited November 14, 2009 by Happiness

[kevkei]

Happiness,

that in and of itself is the problem. Government, employers, supervisors, etc all count on the fact that we like to help people and will effortlessly hold it over our heads and very frequently use it as a bargaining tool or tactic.

How can staff 'help' the people we serve if you feel overworked, overutilized, understaffed, undervalued, and underpayed? After 16 years of doing this line of work, I have lost any care for the glory of the job. It is just that, it's a job. I work to live, not live to work.

At some point in time we as a collective have to stand together and say a loud and resounding "NO". It's like battered wife syndrome. As long as you feel it is acceptable and you deserve what you get, you will never get out of a pattern of behaviour.

Like you said, we make constant sacrifices. Missing special events, working important holidays away from your family. It's a wonderful feeling telling your kids "sorry daddy can't be home with you Christmas morning". I'm still reminded by my daughter of the times I haven't been there.

I think your perspective is admirable but is a little naïve.

[Happiness]

Happiness,

that in and of itself is the problem. Government, employers, supervisors, etc all count on the fact that we like to help people and will effortlessly hold it over our heads and very frequently use it as a bargaining tool or tactic.

How can staff 'help' the people we serve if you feel overworked, overutilized, understaffed, undervalued, and underpayed? After 16 years of doing this line of work, I have lost any care for the glory of the job. It is just that, it's a job. I work to live, not live to work.

At some point in time we as a collective have to stand together and say a loud and resounding "NO". It's like battered wife syndrome. As long as you feel it is acceptable and you deserve what you get, you will never get out of a pattern of behaviour.

Like you said, we make constant sacrifices. Missing special events, working important holidays away from your family. It's a wonderful feeling telling your kids "sorry daddy can't be home with you Christmas morning". I'm still reminded by my daughter of the times I haven't been there.

I think your perspective is admirable but is a little naïve.

Im sorry to hear that you have personally lost your care in your job. But if you would have understood what I was saying like DONT do overtime and the little extras ect you would see that I am not naive, I just want people to know that I believe most of us do this because we do care, and at the end of the day it is the public that needs us not the government (unless of course they call an ambulance).

I did get a response from my MLA and he did send me some information. I have asked him directly if I can post it in this forum and am waiting for his reply.

[Happiness]

Here is the information that I recieved, for those that are interested. This fight is not over by any means I'm sure. I tried to edit some of this but I couldnt make it any shorter (sorry squint im just not that smart) so I know it is long but it does show there is some political support for our cause. Dam I just made it longer

Attached other items of interest!

After a long night of fighting for the integrity of our health care system and the collective bargaining rights of all British Columbians, Bill 21 was passed!

For Immediate Release

Nov. 8, 2009

BILL 21 LATEST BETRAYAL OF HEALTH SYSTEM AND AN ATTACK ON OUR AMBULANCE PARAMEDICS -COONS

VICTORIA The B.C. Liberals decision to ram through legislation forcing an imposed contract on ambulance paramedics is an admission of their failure to manage the health care system, New Democrat leader Carole James said today.

The B.C. Liberals could have appointed an independent arbitrator and settled the paramedics strike months ago. Instead, they ignored the issue and refused to listen to ambulance workers concerns, said James.

North Coast MLA Gary Coons added, Its a sad for democracy. British Columbians feel deceived by the B.C. Liberals failed record on health care and the current attack against our valued paramedics all across the province. To pass legislation in the middle of a ratification vote is unprecedented. The members of CUPE 873 , the BC Ambulance Paramedics, were voting on a September 28 offer from the government and this is the first time in Labour history that any government has ordered back a group of workers and imposed a contract during a ratification vote. This shows the contempt and disrespect for not only the free collective bargaining system , but for our paramedics who risk their lives, to save ours, every day in this great province.

New Democrat MLAs opposed Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act, through an all-night session of the legislature, but on Saturday morning the Liberal government rammed through this draconian piece of legislation. Although the opposition spent over 30 hrs of debate not one backbench Liberal government member stood to justify this assault on workers, families and the bargaining process, and only 2 Ministers gave their interpretation!

Throughout the paramedics dispute, essential services orders have ensured that ambulance services have not been impacted. In many cases, levels of ambulance service have actually been higher under the essential services order.

Although the Minister of Health used H1N1 as an excuse, this legislation seems to have been influenced by VANOC and the VANOC Medical Services (see attached) who requested that the Campbell government either settle or legislate the strike so that services would not be interrupted during the Olympic Games. The government chose legislation that will not only set back future negotiations with the paramedics but will inflame the labour relations climate just months before public sector negotiations, said Coons. If the government were serious about improving our public health care system, they would respect front-line health care workers, including the hard work of ambulance paramedics who save lives in our communities every day. I believe that this is not the end of the paramedic struggle to fight for their, and our, ambulance service. They have the support and respect of so many people in BC.

Paramedics have been fighting for better staffing levels and fair wages, including an end to the $2 an hour on-call rate.

The B.C. Liberals have a record of trampling the rights of ordinary British Columbians. Last year, the B.C. Liberals had to bring in legislation to repair the damage done when they tore up health care workers contracts in 2003, which the Supreme Court of Canada ruled illegal.

AND

Deputy Speaker: I will take this opportunity to remind all members that the debate consideration this evening is for the motion before you. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Coons: Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I'm here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

It's an honour and privilege to speak to Bill 21, the ambulance services imposed contract act. I don't think we can call it a collective agreement. I think everybody in this room can agree that it is not a collective agreement, and that's why we need to support the hoist motion before us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We need six months to sit back, reflect on what's happened in the last year, the last two years and it isn't just the last year or two. It's a collection of decades where we've allowed our ambulance service to get in a critical condition. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I represent the paramedics in Prince Rupert on the north coast, in Prince Rupert, on Haida Gwaii and on the central coast in Bella Coola. But I don't represent paramedics; I represent my constituents. We in this House represent British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

This motion before us, this hoist motion, is what we need to do to ensure that we have labour peace in the province, that paramedics are respected for the job that they do, and that we can move forward, continuing the best ambulance service we have in the country. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We need the six months so that we can reflect on the 3,471 paramedics in the province who work out of about 400 or 500 ambulances, who did 534,000 calls in 2007-08. If you take these numbers in perspective, paramedics made contact with one in eight people living in the province of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[2005]

If you compare that elsewhere, you can see very quickly that our paramedics, our ambulance service, is not only the busiest in the country but the most dedicated, the best trained. They deserve six months for us to sit down and reflect on what we're doing with this imposed contract. Now, [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HSE - 20091106 PM 014/gtw/2005

the best trained, and they deserve six months for us to sit down and reflect on what we're doing with this imposed contract. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, I'm a teacher, and quite often I become…. I'm overprepared. I get hundreds and hundreds, or thousands, of letters and e-mails about this situation, and I try to put it in perspective. The last thing I want to do…. I come to this legislature, go to meetings, travel throughout the riding I represent, travel throughout the province, and I listen, because my role is to learn and represent the feelings of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The last thing I want to do is be in a bubble, be the only one that's in this bubble, all by myself. I think we need this motion to hoist and have an extra six months so that we give a gentle nudge to the bubble that the members on the other side are in. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, I would hope that over the next few hours, couple of days, as we debate this hoist motion and move forward with trying to actually have a collective agreement versus an imposed one, that it is our job on this side of the House to just burst that bubble, that bubble that this government is in, so that they realize that we need six months, at least, to look at where we need to go with our ambulance service in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, I'm not too sure if it's the whole opposite side, the government side, that's in the bubble. We have that opportunity to burst that bubble and allow us, collectively, to have six more months, with this hoist motion, but I have a feeling that the minister is in his own bubble the ultimate bubble boy, I guess. I think that our job today, tonight, and however long it takes, is to get the members on the other side of the House to have their bubble burst so they can approach the minister and burst that big bubble that he's standing in. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

There are many reasons, I believe, we need to have an extra six months of reflection, we need this hoist motion. I'm trying to put it in perspective so that I am not getting off the reason I'm talking. I've got some reasons here why we need to hoist the bill before us, this imposed contract. It's a regressive piece of legislation. It's an assault against free collective bargaining. It's a deliberate attack against our valued ambulance paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Another reason we need to hoist this piece of legislation is because it's not in the public interest. There has been interference by VANOC in the free collective bargaining process. It does nothing. If we pass this and do not hoist it, it will do nothing for the systemic problems that we have daily in our ambulance service. It's an outrageous and callous interference during a strike vote. It will cause undue labour disruptions throughout the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

This bill before us this ambulance services imposed contract act needs to be hoisted so we have that reflective thought exemplifies the contempt and disrespect for the people that ride in our ambulances and all of the ambulance workers. But one of the key reasons I'm going to start off with this is, basically…. Not one government member on the other side, except for the Minister of Energy and Mines, stood to defend the reason for imposing a contract on paramedics. There might be some really good reasons. We don't know that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In my comments, I will stick to…. Hopefully, I will be able to get through all of the ten reasons why we need to hoist this and delay for six months, because there are many, many reasons. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[2010]

I've heard from so many people, as we all have, as government members have heard. I hope I have an opportunity to get to some of them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HSE - 20091106 PM 015/bah/2010

hoist this and delay for six months because there are many, many reasons. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I've heard from so many people, as we all have, as government members have heard. I hope I have an opportunity to get to some of them, but I have an obligation to acknowledge and recognize a paramedic chief in Port Clements who e-mailed me to talk about the reason we need to hoist this bill before us. I'm going to get to that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

This is Terry Mitchell. He's a paramedic chief in Port Clements. I read part of his letter in second debate. He says he's angry, disappointed and fearful. He's angry because they bargained in good faith, unlike the government. He's disappointed because it gives him no incentive to continue working for B.C. Ambulance, and he's scared because if this legislation passes, it truly confirms that the government has "no respect for the job I do" and, more importantly, no respect for the citizens of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, that was on the debate a couple of days ago. He's contacted me since the hoist motion. He says: "I am truly amazed that the minister is so narrow-sighted that he thinks this will solve the pressing concerns that the government has fabricated. The hoist motion introduced by the opposition is perhaps the only thing, the only thing at this point in time, that could demonstrate good faith on the part of the government." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

That's why we're here. We're here to hopefully encourage the government to vote for this hoist motion and move forward and demonstrate good faith. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, I do want to talk about Terry and why he's so dedicated and so inclined to e-mail his MLA to try to get this hoist motion passed in this House. Terry is a very, very dedicated paramedic. He was the first paramedic to ever ride with the Cops for Cancer on the Tour de North from Port Clements. He raised $8,000 for Cops for Cancer. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The exMinister of Health, who is now the Minister of Aboriginal Relations, said: "We are very proud of the fundraising efforts of Terry Mitchell and the support the B.C. Ambulance Service provides each year as other paramedics volunteer time to travel. The commitment of our paramedics and others at the B.C. Ambulance Service in giving back to our communities needs to be recognized and applauded." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I agree. I agree. That is the Minister of Health two years ago the ex-minister, the previous Minister of Health. Where is he now? Nowhere to be seen. Where are the members from the other side? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Deputy Speaker: Member. You will bring yourself back to consideration of the motion. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Coons: Thank you, Chair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

When I talk about the ten reasons, one of the reasons we need to hoist this bill is to give the members on the other side an opportunity to stand and reflect and realize we are going in the wrong direction with an imposed contract. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I'm standing here on behalf of paramedics who are dedicated, who have dedicated their lives to the profession and want to have a negotiated contract. Paramedics like Terry Mitchell. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, as I mentioned, one of the key reasons that we need to hoist this bill that's before us is we have not heard from the members from the other side. They need an opportunity to participate. They need an opportunity maybe not to participate here in this House on record. They need to go back into their chambers, perhaps burst the bubbles at their end, sit down and reflect on what this bill is going to do not only to paramedics but to the labour climate in this province and how it's going to impact British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[2015]

Now, I mentioned earlier that one of the members…. I give credit to the member, the member for Peace River South, the Minister of Energy and Mines. He stood up. He stood tall and talked to this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HSE - 20091106 PM 016/klm/2015

the member for Peace River South, the Minister of Energy and Mines. He stood up. He stood tall and talked to this bill. But again, he received communications about his comments. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

The reason that we need to have an extra six months of delay of reflection, negotiations, looking at a path forward is so that people throughout the province not only paramedics but the mayors throughout the province, the regional districts, those at the UBCM who supported our paramedics for the last three years and recognized what the paramedics do in every corner of our province have an opportunity to get hold of their MLA, whether it's government or opposition, and confirm the direction we need to go. That is why we need to hoist this bill and have a six-month parlay into actual communications throughout the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, when I look at a note I got from a person from Chilliwack, Michael Topping…. His MLA is the Chilliwack-Hope MLA, and he says: "It's great disappointment I find myself writing to you. I want you to stand up in the House and explain to your paramedic constituents why you personally support this bill." Now, if we pass this bill, the Minister of Environment, the MLA for Chilliwack-Hope, will not have an opportunity to stand in this House and talk about the bill and explain why this government is imposing this contract on them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

So a key reason for the hoist motion is so that there's an opportunity for everybody in the House to go back to their ridings and actually explain why we need this bill passed, or why we need to change it and actually have it in a collective agreement versus in an imposed contract. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Another letter I got dealing with hoisting this motion and hoisting this bill was from Peter Smith. His MLA is for Abbotsford South, and he says: "I find Bill 21 an absolute outrage, taking away basic collective bargaining and democratic rights because of some excuse like H1N1. Shame on all you Liberals for not standing up for your constituents. Shame on you." With a hoist…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Deputy Speaker: Member, please take your seat. You will know that I have repeatedly asked members to consider the motion under debate and not to revisit second reading debate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Please proceed.

G. Coons: Thank you, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again, the reason that we need to hoist this bill is to have the opportunity for reflective debate. If it's passed, if it was passed when this government wanted it to be passed, that would be the end of it. Constituents could not have the opportunity to have input into it, and that's why we need to have this bill hoisted, with an extra six months of reflection and thought. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Also, we look at the MLA for Abbotsford-Mission. "Where are you on this?" says Peter Smith. "Are you going to stand up and tell me why you backed Bill 21 when the ambulance service was in such a dismal state of disrepair for years prior to this?" He's requesting thoughtful debate on this, and that's what this motion we've brought forward, this hoist mission, will allow us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Now, when we look at this legislation and one of the reasons I said that we needed to hoist this and delay it for six months was because it's regressive. It's a regressive piece of legislation. It's imposed. It's draconian. But we can change that. We can change that if we had time to look at what's in the bill and how we need to move forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[2020]

Again, this piece of legislation was [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HSE - 20091106 PM 017/ajb/2020

at what's in the bill and how we need to move forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again, this piece of legislation was actually presented in the House to some degree, as a lot of people have informed me under some sort of false pretence. And we need to alleviate that concern. We cannot pass a bill in here where people think it was presented to us in this Legislature under a false pretence. You know, the minister stood up and said that H1N1 is the real reason that paramedics are being legislated back to work. I'm hearing that's not true. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

We've seen a memo from VANOC that says that pressure was put on the government to either settle or legislate. Nowhere in there did H1N1 come into the question, come into the equation. So I think it's imperative not only on this side of the House, but on the government side to alleviate that concern of false pretence. But we haven't heard anybody stand up. We haven't heard anybody stand up and shoot down that theory. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Leanne Nixon: "I urge you to reconsider Bill 21. Paramedics deserve a fair settlement. H1N1 is not the real reason they're being legislated. If it was, why aren't paramedics even being considered a priority for the H1N1 shots?" [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I don't understand. As we look at the purpose of us being here tonight, which is trying to get passed a piece of legislation that is so vital…. It's so significant, at such a significant point in time in the province. We got the Olympics coming up. We have other issues out there. This should have been dealt with a long time ago. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

There could have been an arbitrator, an independent arbitrator. There's still time for that. There's still time for that. If we have a hoist motion, then there's an opportunity to rethink how we got here today and put in an arbitrator to get a real collective agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again, I have to go back to the premise of why they had to pass this legislation the premise, a false premise that we need to deal with. The only way we can deal with that false premise is by having a six-month delay. John Strohmaier says: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

"The government claims this legislation is necessary in light of the H1N1 crisis. We've been saying the service needs serious attention for more than four years. We warned the government…. The reality is that paramedics are leaving the service in droves because they pay for their own training, they pay for their own travel to and from the job, and they cannot afford to remain paramedics."

Now, that is a real dilemma. A real dilemma. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

There are mixed messages going on here, and to pass a piece of legislation as important as Bill 21, we have to make sure we're doing the right thing. The government, on that side, has to ensure they're doing the right thing. At this point in time, our job in this House is to try to burst that bubble and say: "Think about whether you are doing the right thing." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I remember the debate back a year ago, prior to us having a concern about negotiated contracts or imposed contracts or hoisting a bill that needs clarification. The member from Abbotsford-Mission, the Minister of State for Mining said: "I want to talk about the individual members, the individual paramedics who are out there working in British Columbia. I want to speak for a moment about the leadership that John Strohmaier, the head of the paramedics union, has shown." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[2025]

So we have a mixed message. We don't have the member from Abbotsford-Mission standing up talking about the premises of false pretences. But there's a lot of respect on the other side for John Strohmaier. So we need clarification [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HSE - 20091106 PM 018/img/2025

talking about the false pretences, but there's a lot of respect on the other side for John Strohmaier. So we need clarification. We need an extra six months to sit back, reflect, burst our bubbles, and move forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

As we move forward, you know, it's a concern, not only in this House, where we're debating Bill 21, this imposed contract, and we want to hoist it so that we change that imposed contract to a collective agreement. But there's concern outside of this chamber, a lot of concern. People up and down my riding on the north coast, throughout the province in every riding, every constituency, have concerns. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Again, we cannot rush in and pass a bill that is not in the public interest. It would be a detriment to communities throughout the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

As far back as 2003 at the UBCM there was a resolution for support for provincewide ambulance services. Right up until 2009 the UBCM had motions put forward by mayors, by regional districts, by elected officials throughout the province every corner of the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I've got some communications that are concerned about the progress of this bill and where we're going. We have an obligation. We have an obligation to sit back, take this Bill 21 and put it somewhere where we can sort it out, either through an independent arbitrator or perhaps back at the bargaining table. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But, you know, as far as the latest UBCM…. They talk about a recruitment challenge. In 2008 they talk about standby pay. In 2007 they talk about the ambulance service, where a timely response…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Deputy Speaker: Member, that is not referencing the motion under debate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Coons: Thank you, hon. Chair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

All of these issues are issues that need to be looked at during the six-month hoist. We need to be sure that those mayors, those regional district members, those elected officials throughout the province have confidence and faith in the bill we're passing before us, and we can't do that. We couldn't do that yesterday. We couldn't do that today. That's why the opposition reluctantly put forth the hoist motion so that we can have that reflective thought and move forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. Chair, we saw the concern about some interference, some false pretences. Again, when we move forward with this bill, we need to ensure…. Have the opportunity to tell British Columbians that we've passed a bill that we are comfortable with, that the paramedics are comfortable with, that we can move forward with an ambulance service where there's timely response, where their issues about recruitment and training have been dealt with. The $2 wage needs to be dealt with, and that's something where a hoist motion…. We can look at all of these issues and move forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

A key component that I have a real problem with and a lot of people have is that we need to hoist this motion and change it from this imposed contract to a collective agreement. I mentioned that one of my ten reasons for hoisting and having a delay of six months is because we need to deal with free collective bargaining. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[2030]

Somebody from Kamloops South wrote a letter, and they said that they're appalled it's being rammed through. "My MLA from Kamloops South said that he was standing by to allow collective bargaining to take its course." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

HSE - 20091106 PM 019/iaw/2030

wrote a letter, and they said that they're appalled it's being rammed through. "My MLA from Kamloops south said that he was standing by to allow collective bargaining to take its course." Now, collective bargaining to take its course. Well, let's go to…. Oh yeah, they've called it the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

But it is not collective bargaining. There's no collective bargaining. It's an imposed contract in the middle of a vote, so we need to hoist this motion because, I guess, paramedic members of the union were voting on the contract that the government put before them, I believe, last September 28. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

How ludicrous is it to be standing in this House and have a bill come before us where we're waiting for the results of the vote on a contract? If it's agreed upon by the union, then I guess it's a collective agreement. Then we can call it that. We need to hoist this bill for six months so that we can see if we can get to free collective bargaining. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

I did have ten things here I was talking about, and at first, I thought: "Jeez, it's a top ten, sort of like the Letterman show." But I realize that you can't really equate what's happening in this Legislature with Letterman, except that to some degree what happened to Letterman and his staff is happening to paramedics throughout the province and by this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

On that, I will reiterate: we need six months' reflective, sober reflection on this bill. We need collective bargaining. We need to respect our paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

One last thing. A couple of paramedics e-mailed me and said that Bill 21 needs to be shredded. It should not be before this House. That's why we have this motion before us to hoist it, and respecting paramedics, I'm going to do what I think needs to be done with Bill 21. We're going to support the hoist motion, and hopefully, it will be shredded. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Deputy Speaker: Members, and for the member who has just spoken, you know that those inferences are not appropriate when referring to other hon. members. I would ask you to withdraw. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

G. Coons: I withdraw. [DRAFT

AND the best for last

Earlier this fall, a memorandum was sent from Dr Mike Wilkinson (he's Director of Medical Services for Vanoc) to Stephen Brown, Lee Doney and other government officials. In part that memo stated:

"VANOC Medical Services (and thus the IOC) requires definitive confirmation by Oct 1 2009 that all required ambulance services will be provided as planned. These services include the ability to engage the VPCs and BCAS members in full venue planning as soon as possible. This confirmation must also include a guarantee that no services during the Games will be disrupted or reduced from what has been planned."

"If we are unable to obtain that guarantee (through either settlement of the strike or legislated "detente" for the Games), then VANOC will be required to initiate alternative contingency plans to avoid cancellation of the Games."

To me, that seems to be a very clear link between this legislated contract and the 2010 Games.

I dont know how far it will take paramedics by writting to their MLA's but in my case I recieved a response with in 36 hrs. I think that was not to bad concidering most politians dont make any responses. We need to keep up our regular duties and not do the overtime and them maybe they will understand by making us go back to work they have just shot themselves in the foot. One thing I do know is that the government is solicitating for newly trained EMR's that are licensed for the olympics and they are willing to pay them 2500.00 per month. This is without travel, or housing for their troubles.

Mr. Coons will try to take my orginal letter forward as he says and I do trust him enough to do so.

Happiness

Edited November 16, 2009 by Happiness