Calgary EMS HIRING FREEZE?

[ukcanuck]

I was really slow but I had better communication skills then those who had been urban the whole time.

(This generally comes from having that extra pt contact time in a slower, rural setting) totally agree

What we have to do is stop thinking ALS/BLS and start thinking TEAM.

(True, but if one member frequently cannot function due to lack of life or road experience ...) agreed but the idea is that one complements the other not fight or take over from the othere when a certain pt population presents

You are an ALS skilled team not individuals providing care at our level.

(Each team member has a certain set of skills; if one cannot provide those skills ... see above)

I work on the premise that my BLS partner can and will do his/her job when required.

(Again, see above)If they can;t do the job then something is fundamentally wrong with the schools/induction/Q&A/preceptorships/ etc that get the crew member where they are

I also know that you can learn a lot from those old time EMRs and EMTs who have worked the same patch for the last twenty years.

(You don't mean the oil patch, do you?)No def not - sorry but if you graduate then go out to the oil patch w/o 911 experience then IMHO that is asking for problems, controversial I know but its what I think - no reasearch at all behind it just my opinion

And to those ALS paramedics who think they know it all been there done that got the t shirt worn the t shirt out..... after nearly twenty years I have not seen it all. Seen most of it but I know that there will be a call sometime somewhere that will trip me up. The guy who will get me out of that mess will be my partner whether he is BLS or ALS. Its about pt care not who gives it.

(I can't say I know one medic who feels they know it all; I work with several with 30+ years, however I know there are many out there who are narrow minded. As for 'getting out of a mess', I've seen the brand new EMT malfunction in a super busy situation and CANNOT do this, never mind start their partner's IV or differentiate between a canula and end tidal CO2.)I have seen and met new paramedics who think they know it all and dismiss the "dinausors" if you have been around EMS awhile you realise to listen to everyone and ignore the crap advice but to learn from others mistakes and successes. I too have seen a brand new EMT "malfunction" but why is this? Not enough support from their preceptor, not enough time, sacred to say or do anything cause of the ALS/BLS battle - we need to start talkinh about crew resource management and these principles need to be added to the paramedic courses as we need to act as a team not the dictatorship some crews come to be. this has been proven in aviation for years

[tniuqs]

Pfft... Are you even comprehending what you guys are typing or just spewing the same old crap you have been fed over the last few years by our closed-minded veterans here in Ab (no offence tniuqs).

None taken .... ahem pick up that case of beer would you I an too old and feeble of mind and I will spare a you a slow death

Well this tread sure has got off track a tad, although I cannot disagree with any comments they are valid it is dependent in many cases on the positive and negative experiences it each individual it has matters not the # on the card [although agreed it should be laminated so puke washes off easily] and I could pontificate for hours on this or that situation, I spare you my thoughts, I will say as a fossil I have observed every level screw up and on the other side observed every level do stellar jobs ....

This thrread started about hiring freeze in Cow Town .... and the reasons why this is occurring, very soon we will observe the standard PC hiring policy's by AHS HR and it will all become a mute point it will become hiring based on PC only not experience in this area or that .... I will hold my tongue on that topic, as I recently was NOT hired in a local operation because of a "social hiring fit in" policy .... possibly a good thing as mediocrity is really not my persona ...

What annoys me with the bigger picture when any major urban area hires the 10 day on 4 day off crowd (insert reg #) wishes to have greener pastures 4 days on 4 days off ... you just cannot blame anyone for this, the old municipal funding formula was directly responsible for level of care in the rural areas ... FAIL. This sucked "experienced providers" insert (reg #) from rural areas into urban ..... so 29 hires for Cow town pulled 29 from 29 separate rural communities ... all wrong in my books.

Now this new improved takeover "maintain service level" well we have already clearly observed that this is a lie with BILL 60 and putting an EMERGENCY PARAMEDIC Band Aid sticker on every gut wagon, just as BCAS capitalized on this, we will loose experienced providers where they can truly make a difference not the 15 minutes flip to the foothills ER but 3 hours transports from a rural community where resources are truly stretched to the max not only in man power but in brain power as well.

The Liepert "circle talk" of hiring ACPs or EMTs and actually use them in Rural Facilities is fraught with "turf wars" conflict's and a lack of put your money where your mouth is philosophy ..... just where did the money go in Dr. Druckmans Super Boards pockets ?

Late entry for uk FYI ... there is always a TEAM Leader in a Team, the higher the reg # thats where the finger is pointed ALWAYS!

The legislated level for the "patch" best called remote deployments and there are many flavours from drilling rigs to completions to logging to pipeline to plant turn around to mountian pine beetle and forest fires is the EMR level akin to a First Aider and they get thrown out after 120 hours of training and cant even open the door of a real gut wagon and pull the cot ... because the "program" does not include this The huge fail IMHO is that ACoP and WCB should me mandationg an EMT W for Wilderness level because thats what it is in most cases.

No def not - sorry but if you graduate then go out to the oil patch w/o 911 experience then IMHO that is asking for problems, controversial I know but its what I think - no reasearch at all behind it just my opinion

Do you need research to understand that a spanking new Grad EMT ... with a whole 40 calls on car then thrown to the wolves and perhaps seeing 2 patients for cold and cough in a month when and IF they ever do get a heavy hit ... no rocket science needed to see the possible out come (and in those cases the Team consists of one "Medic" and an overseer called a Consultant or Safety ) that signs the bills and is duped into believing one call and a Rescue Helicopter is on the way and the liability for the accident is already on his head .... FAIL AGAIN.

cheers

[ukcanuck]

There is a team leader but they should be just that - a team leader - not the whole team and the minions around him do his bidding. Being a team leader is about getting the best from your team using the resources/skills/experience/knowledge available regardless of who has them. If the 747 Captain doesn't see the 777 about to hit them the first officer will speak up and the Captain will listen (well....should)if the cabin crew notice that an engine is on fire the Captain will be very interested in their opinion.

I think we agree on the subjects dicussed just attacking from different angles

Someone always carries the can at some stage and the way I look at it is that it is one of the reasons we get extra pay. That does not mean we have to take over when the BLS is perfectly capable and that includes some sick pts.

Personally I am watching this thread as I have just got my EMT-P in Alberta and will be looking for work in the Calgary area after mid Jan but will not be adverse to working ANYWHERE else. Patients are patients and pay is pay. I am looking for 911 over industry just for the family time at home.

I have found it particularly nice that there are the same issues in EMS in Canada even after leaving BCAS some 15 years ago and that they are still the same as here in the UK. SSDD

be safe

[tniuqs]

ukcanuck

There is a team leader but they should be just that - a team leader - not the whole team and the minions around him do his bidding. Being a team leader is about getting the best from your team using the resources/skills/experience/knowledge available regardless of who has them. If the 747 Captain doesn't see the 777 about to hit them the first officer will speak up and the Captain will listen (well....should)if the cabin crew notice that an engine is on fire the Captain will be very interested in their opinion.

Having just a bit of background concerning "Cabin Cooperation" both Pilots left and right seats are ATR (thats Airline Transportation Regulation/ Licences) multi engine, turbine or fan jet, IFR, night endorsed and passing simulator) so your comparing apples to apples and egos in the cabin ... this is not the discussion in my perspective.

I think we agree on the subjects dicussed just attacking from different angles

Nope comparing Paramedic to EMT is comparing apples to oranges, (generality speaking) what I am looking down the road for (in medical care) maybe furthur afield, ie when I am the one pushing meds IV for pain relief ... I am looking to trends in ETCo2 ... do you thing most EMT are, when SPo2 drop to 91% when cabin pressure assends to 8000 AGL am I going to a NRM ? hmmm.

Someone always carries the can at some stage and the way I look at it is that it is one of the reasons we get extra pay. That does not mean we have to take over when the BLS is perfectly capable and that includes some sick pts.

Define the difference BLS vs ALS ... and I'm old and a sucker, I like shooting the breeze with the little old lady transfers thats a part of the ALS vs BLS equation not factored in, just try doing the return trip from Jasper to EDM and not changing out Driver vs Attendant ... we all are aware that ~ 10 % of trips are actually ALS only.

Personally I am watching this thread as I have just got my EMT-P in Alberta and will be looking for work in the Calgary area after mid Jan but will not be adverse to working ANYWHERE else. Patients are patients and pay is pay. I am looking for 911 over industry just for the family time at home.

Interesting just how did that go with ACoP ? Where you a BCAS ACP ? and you do not have to do a field evaluation by a registered REMT-P registered member before you are hired by Cow Town EMS or even receiving your R0# 05 ? You raise a good question should your expatriate visit to the UK and returning have some priority in the hiring process, sorry to break this to you but presently what you want and what you are about to receive may be very different from the reality of the "New improved AB EMS"

I have found it particularly nice that there are the same issues in EMS in Canada even after leaving BCAS some 15 years ago and that they are still the same as here in the UK. SSDD

Could you explain the SSDD abbreviation? I must disagree the UK system and CND complicated by multiple different factors in provincial Act(s) your a tad deluded.

cheers

[ukcanuck]

Having just a bit of background concerning "Cabin Cooperation" both Pilots left and right seats are ATR (thats Airline Transportation Regulation/ Licences) multi engine, turbine or fan jet, IFR, night endorsed and passing simulator) so your comparing apples to apples and egos in the cabin ... this is not the discussion in my perspective.

Crew Resource Management (CRM) is not just about the flight deck but rather the whole interaction of all those involved with the safe operation of the aircarft at all times so that will include flight deck, cabin crew, flight ops, ground staff, and the hanger floor cleaner. My flight deck example may not have been the best.

Nope comparing Paramedic to EMT is comparing apples to oranges, (generality speaking) what I am looking down the road for (in medical care) maybe furthur afield, ie when I am the one pushing meds IV for pain relief ... I am looking to trends in ETCo2 ... do you thing most EMT are, when SPo2 drop to 91% when cabin pressure assends to 8000 AGL am I going to a NRM ? hmmm.

I was not comparing paramedics and EMTs but rather commenting on the interaction between the two as mentioned previously and that it should be a symbiotic relationship rather than a dictatorship/autocratic type of team work. I would expect my EMT partner to also notice or at least call out trends in vital signs and take an active part in developing pt care packages. Am I deluded to expect staff to be able to do their job or is this too far out of the scope of practice?? That is not sarcasism but rather an honest question.

Define the difference BLS vs ALS ... and I'm old and a sucker, I like shooting the breeze with the little old lady transfers thats a part of the ALS vs BLS equation not factored in, just try doing the return trip from Jasper to EDM and not changing out Driver vs Attendant ... we all are aware that ~ 10 % of trips are actually ALS only.

Interesting just how did that go with ACoP ? Where you a BCAS ACP ? and you do not have to do a field evaluation by a registered REMT-P registered member before you are hired by Cow Town EMS or even receiving your R0# 05 ? You raise a good question should your expatriate visit to the UK and returning have some priority in the hiring process, sorry to break this to you but presently what you want and what you are about to receive may be very different from the reality of the "New improved AB EMS"

Went well with the ACoP. They put hoops in front of me and I jumped through them at the required height/speed/angle with the appropriate amount of enthusiasm. No was not ACP with BCAS got Alberta after gaining Ont and Nova Scotia ACP using substansive review of my work here in the UK. I was surprised that there was no practical element to regsitration but not complaining. I am not expecting my expatriate visit to the UK to put me higher on the list but I would think that the years of experience would put me where I deserve to be when compared with the other applicants. I am looking at, as stated, ANYWHERE for work that would include oh ANYWHERE..... wife wants the Calgary area as she likes it there but thats it. As for the NHS, outside looking in at the NHS is the best place to be. I have noticed that the NHS seems to be held in some esteem by many over the pond - try being here. There is a big group of paramedics here that would swap places with you over there just say when and they would even swap houses - some wives in a couple of cases :)We are losing paramedics nationally at a very alarming rate and they are not just leaving the country to do the same job elsewhere but also quitting to do different jobs which range from hospital specialists to driving instructor to electrician to dive master.

If the job is the same in Alberta as it is here now and we get a better lifestyle for the family then we have won with the move - if the job is better than the UK then we have won again...... I have looked at several systems in Canada and further afield and the grass ain't greener just a different length.....

Could you explain the SSDD abbreviation? I must disagree the UK system and CND complicated by multiple different factors in provincial Act(s) your a tad deluded.

Same Sh*t Different Day - SSDD

cheers

Have a safe one

[tniuqs]

. I have looked at several systems in Canada and further afield and the grass ain't greener just a different length.....

I would need a snow shovel to check that out ....

[Siffaliss]

What we have to do is stop thinking ALS/BLS and start thinking TEAM.

(True, but if one member frequently cannot function due to lack of life or road experience ...) agreed but the idea is that one complements the other not fight or take over from the othere when a certain pt population presents

I understand where you're coming from, but have you never had someone freeze on you so cold to the point where prompting wasn't working at all, and you had to take over the call (not fight over it) because nothing would get done and patient care might be compromised? (Over and over again I might add ...)

Squint was right, the topic did get way off topic

[tniuqs]

Same Sh*t Different Day - SSDD

Well at least I learned a new abbreviation

Thinking of putting my own spin on it .... S squared D squared I dunno

cheers

[ukcanuck]

I understand where you're coming from, but have you never had someone freeze on you so cold to the point where prompting wasn't working at all, and you had to take over the call (not fight over it) because nothing would get done and patient care might be compromised? (Over and over again I might add ...)

Squint was right, the topic did get way off topic

Yep, had partners of ALL levels freeze, including pre hospital doctors, on calls and some even needed a slight gentle nudge across the back of the head to get them moving. That is not a ALS/BLS issue that is a person to person issue. What I am saying is that the ambulance crew should be just that - a crew - not two individuals working the same truck. Maybe it is just me expecting too much from my partner and maybe it is a good reason to ahve two paramedics on each truck???

[Siffaliss]

Yep, had partners of ALL levels freeze, including pre hospital doctors, on calls and some even needed a slight gentle nudge across the back of the head to get them moving. That is not a ALS/BLS issue that is a person to person issue. What I am saying is that the ambulance crew should be just that - a crew - not two individuals working the same truck. Maybe it is just me expecting too much from my partner and maybe it is a good reason to ahve two paramedics on each truck???

Just because one is a paramedic, doesn't mean one isn't a cocky jackass who wouldn't crap the bed on a call

Edited November 24, 2009 by Siffaliss