AV CPG

[High Speed Chaser]

So I'm not a paramedic as such but I have a strong interest to join and while I have older CPGs from the RAV site (before MAS and RAV merged), I was wondering when the new ones come out if they have not already.

The AV link is here and says

The new Clinical Practice Guidelines will be published online shortly.

however I was just wandering if they started handing the out or what ever the procedure is when they change CPGs. Edited November 26, 2009 by High Speed Chaser

[melclin]

Yeah that link has said that for bloody ever.

There is a lot of commotion about the new CPGs. Apparently they got some fancy company to make them all pretty, and pretty they do look. Except they're bulky, fragile, expensive and full of dangerous misprints (1) and have not corrected the many weird and confusing errors that built up from years of tacking new guidelines onto old ones (2).

(1) "CONTRAINDICATION FOR GTN: Inferior STEMI BP>160" is very different to "...BP<160"....f**kers

(2) "for mild to moderate severity COPD treat as per....bla bla" followed by, "Regardless of severity treat as per....(different treatment to the first one)

Of course, any medic worth their salt would know that's obviously not right because they would understand the rationale behind the inferior STEMI thing, but still, it makes you wonder what else is wrong.

Anyway, AV also didn't have enough made for students, despite the fact that as of last semester our lecturers, in their wisdom, were using the new CPGs for exam questions. So we got the new CPG a few days after the semester finished. $58 as opposed to the old $13....f**kers

END RANT.

Anyway, you can get all kinds of things, including the new CPG from this site, but it'll take him a while to get them too you, and there are a few more mistakes in the downloadable version. http://www.paramedic-info.com/

Either the VU or Monash book shops should have the hard copies in stock by now. Like I said $58, but you'll be needing them anyway, and in my experience, the success of a given student, was directly proportional to how early they sucked it up and bought some CPGs of their own (they're not prescribed texts, just recommended).

Edited December 8, 2009 by melclin

[BushyFromOz]

interesting.....

A uni student using the word "f**kers" to describe one of their potential employers - not necessarily a smart move

Anyway, AV also didn't have enough made for students, despite the fact that as of last semester our lecturers, in their wisdom, were using the new CPGs for exam questions. So we got the new CPG a few days after the semester finished

So the real issue is that the unies started using a "text" that not only is not prescribed but not even available to student. this is something that should be taken up with your university.

Truth is that the new CPG's wer hammered through to close to the merger and there were barely enough printed at the time to get one to each operational paramedic let alone for uni students where it wasn't a prescribed text. It also took time getting them delivered to 3000 ambos' which puts you even further off the radar. The typo's in the guidelines were also informed to staff in our ISCEP day (or whatever they are called now) and anyone who paid attention will have made corrections in their book.

In fact the new CPG's have not long been electronically available on the staff intranet, and i have no idea when they will be available to the general public. To the OP, the old guidelines are not that much different than the new ones, and will be a good start at learning them.

in my experience, the success of a given student, was directly proportional to how early they sucked it up and bought some CPGs of their own

Thats an excellent piece of advice, but dont make the mistake of shooting off at the mouth to early. Any paramedic in AV "worth their salt" as you put it will not tolerate someone in a green suit mouthing of at their mess room table, even if you are right. Edited December 8, 2009 by BushyFromOz

[High Speed Chaser]

Thanks Guys for that, I will definitely start re-reading and absorbing the old CPGs and cross my fingers I get into the course.

[mobey]

interesting.....

A uni student using the word "f**kers" to describe one of their potential employers - not necessarily a smart move

This thread has the potential to go EPIC

Remember the last guy to do this??

[Kiwiology]

Thanks Guys for that, I will definitely start re-reading and absorbing the old CPGs and cross my fingers I get into the course.

Remember that any guideline should be fairly generically nonspecific and that it is important to learn the underlying physiology, pathophysiology and pharmo as it applies to that guideline.

You'd be much better off doing an A&P course and learning whats in there rather than being able to regurgitate information from a cookbook upon demand.

[melclin]

interesting.....

A uni student using the word "f**kers" to describe one of their potential employers - not necessarily a smart move

I'll take my chances, on a predominantly anonymous web page with relatively few Australians, in echoing a sentiment that seems to be pretty common in open conversation at the moment.

So the real issue is that the unies started using a "text" that not only is not prescribed but not even available to student. this is something that should be taken up with your university.

Indeed. One of my profanities was directly aimed at them. Also, the fact that its not prescribed, just means we don't HAVE to buy it. We still HAVE to access the information stored within it, its just our choice about how we do that.

Truth is that the new CPG's wer hammered through to close to the merger and there were barely enough printed at the time to get one to each operational paramedic let alone for uni students where it wasn't a prescribed text. It also took time getting them delivered to 3000 ambos' which puts you even further off the radar. The typo's in the guidelines were also informed to staff in our ISCEP day (or whatever they are called now) and anyone who paid attention will have made corrections in their book.

I don't see how this doesn't support my first set of tongue in cheek profanities.

Also, I know how worthless you all consider us gherkins to be, but the reality is we'll be your peers in a few years, and if we weren't so far "off the radar" then maybe we'd be a little less incompetent when we finished uni.

In fact the new CPG's have not long been electronically available on the staff intranet, and i have no idea when they will be available to the general public. To the OP, the old guidelines are not that much different than the new ones, and will be a good start at learning them.

They are electronically available on the internet, to the public and html format is available on the CD that he sends out. Follow the link I provided. They are not in their original form, they have been transposed for pda format, and, like I said, have a few more mistakes in them. The old guidelines are drastically different to the new ones when you are trying to wrap your head around them for the first time. The new format is much more conducive to learning.

Thats an excellent piece of advice, but dont make the mistake of shooting off at the mouth to early. Any paramedic in AV "worth their salt" as you put it will not tolerate someone in a green suit mouthing of at their mess room table, even if you are right.

To early? For what? I was talking about the academic success of a student. People seem to do better academically and seem to have a better understanding of the material when they get the CPG book earlier. Now before the old, "but you can't learn experience from a book" comes out, I know that, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I have very little-to-no experience and I don't ever claim to speak for a position of great empirical wisdom. I was simply giving Chaser a hand with what will be one of his first year subjects if he comes to Monash (and venting a few of my own frustrations along the way).

I am aware of the impossible situation gherkins are in when it comes to our demeanor. We cannot be too confident and we cannot be to weak, and we must accept that fact that whichever balance we chose, we will probably be looked upon poorly anyway. Regardless of how right we are, we are wrong, even if our roadie said the same thing ten minutes earlier. Every roadie always seems shocked when they learn that the uni is not teaching their particular way of doing things, and naturally it is our fault as students. I feel I have come upon a good balance of humble confidence, hat dothing, and detached compassion to avoid getting yelled at on placements. It is not necessarily the same as my online persona.

This thread has the potential to go EPIC

Remember the last guy to do this??

Haha, not today it won't. Starting fights on the with roadies who will crucify you no matter what you do/say/breath is not wise. Still, my marks don't depend on this forum's "reputation bar" so, maybe

You'd be much better off doing an A&P course and learning whats in there rather than being able to regurgitate information from a cookbook upon demand.

That comes in the degree. My advice to chaser a little while ago was to take a ganda at the CPGs to get a little familiar with some of the stuff he'll have to know in semester one. Its just easier come exam time when you are reviewing more complex concepts if you don't also have to spend time wrote learning stuff you could have memorized in grade 3 if anyone had told you; but instead they decided to tell you in the revision lecture a week before the exams.

[BushyFromOz]

I'll take my chances, on a predominantly anonymous web page with relatively few Australians, in echoing a sentiment that seems to be pretty common in open conversation at the moment.

I didn't agree or disagree with the comment, just said it wasn't necessarily a smart move.

Also, I know how worthless you all consider us gherkins to be, but the reality is we'll be your peers in a few years, and if we weren't so far "off the radar" then maybe we'd be a little less incompetent when we finished uni.

This actually cracks me up, first time i have heard of you guys to be called gherkins! I dont consider "gherkins" to be worthless at all. Dont make the assumption that you are somehow special in that you are doing a degree, you are the norm, as am I. I also have a degree, i did my 3 years, i did my placements, i sat next to people like you in class who sprouted "we will be your peers" BS. It was people like you who made the rest of us cringe, smart ass comments to and about roadies, insinuating you were better than them because you were doing a degree, the gherkins who sat in the loungerom chairs because doing a Sig 3 with the crew heading out the door was somehow beneath them. Reality is i am not that far ahead of you, im not one of the non degreed "roadies" you seem to hold in distain , but its precisely your attitude that gave us grads a bad name to begin with.

Thats why we were considered worthless, roadies were impressed at the level of clinical knowledge we had and horrifed at the attitude because people like yourself projected that arrogant image and we were all tarred with the same brush. When you wear a blue shirt fo a couple of years you start thinking "gee, i hope i didn't come across like that"

I know you think that you act in a different way and you probably do for the purpose of getting thorugh your placements, but once you get in and onto a branch, people will get a whiff of this attitude after a while. Im still amazed at how quick ambo's can smell a rat!

They are electronically available on the internet, to the public and html format is available on the CD that he sends out. Follow the link I provided. They are not in their original form, they have been transposed for pda format, and, like I said, have a few more mistakes in them. The old guidelines are drastically different to the new ones when you are trying to wrap your head arIound them for the first time. The new format is much more conducive to learning.

I know, i have these on my PDA, john (if i remeber the name correctly) has done an awesome job transposing these. I believe the author has been under considerable pressure in the past to discontinue this. the CRAP CD is a great tool! I was referring to the PDF file as released by AV

Haha, not today it won't. Starting fights on the with roadies who will crucify you no matter what you do/say/breath is not wise. Still, my marks don't depend on this forum's "reputation bar" so, maybe

Never said they did.

To early? For what?

Slagging of a potential employer

Every roadie always seems shocked when they learn that the uni is not teaching their particular way of doing things, and naturally it is our fault as students.

Wow, you do have a chip on your shoulder, just another hard done by uni student eh?

Tell me, just what exactly do you feel that AV owes you? Where on AV's radar do you believe you should be?

This thread has the potential to go EPIC

Remember the last guy to do this??

Yeah, im a bit dissapointed actually

[Timmy]

the gherkins who sat in the loungerom chairs because doing a Sig 3 with the crew heading out the door was somehow beneath them.

I had to laugh in disbelief when I read this! How naïve, I'm dumbfounded....

[BushyFromOz]

I had to laugh in disbelief when I read this! How naïve, I'm dumbfounded....

Yeah, i thought it was the stuff of urban legend until i saw it happen a few times myself.

How are you doing anyway tim, long time no see?