EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

[Kiwiology]

This is just blatantly abhorrent and I am disgusted that they did nothing but get thier coffee and donuts. You know this isin't the first time I've seen something like this on here and may infact not be the first incident involving FDNY*EMS to be mentioned.

I bet if they were sitting in thier truck eating bagels and some dude rolled up and beat on the window because he'd just been shanked they wouldn't say "go call 911 mate".

Absolutely discraceful.

... and what, Nicholas Cage and that black guy Marcus in 6-2 Young weren't free?

Edited December 21, 2009 by kiwimedic

[fireflymedic]

I know I sound rather bitter, but I just find it unexcusable. And what is disturbing is that the trend of "I don't care" attitude that is seeming to be more prevalent. Sadly at the time we are needing to stand up more and present ourselves as professionals, we're imploding on ourselves. There's the door fire- just walk in and make yourself at home...

[P_Instructor]

If these bozos were also fire guys, I bet they would have been to the patient's side within milliseconds if the patient would have been ablaze. No excuses. If they are in the medical business, it is the duty to at least 'want' to assist in whatever capacity possible. Total failure. Should be fired and potentially held accountable.

[Kaisu]

I am in no way excusing the actions of these providers. It is my firm belief that the only way to mitigate these types of incidents is to try and gain some sort of lesson from it. This story immediately brings to mind the mid-level provider minimization of symptoms syndrome. I truly believe that if these EMTs had been cognizant of the seriousness of this woman's condition, they would have acted.

Once the newbie excitement has been ground out of EMS personnel, and before the true wisdom of seasoned veterans begins to take hold, there is a "been there done that it's nothing" mentality that causes providers to make serious mistakes. It is something that we need to be aware of and guard against.

My personal experience is that seizures are one of the most "faked" symptoms I come across. Of all the seizure calls I have responded on, perhaps 1 in 5 have been true seizures and non have been life threatening. (self limiting, requiring supportive care and a trip to the hospital). I actually studied the phenomena of pseudo seizures in my efforts to be of some use to these patients, to try and understand why they do it so that I would not just dismiss these patients as "nuts".

In this particular case, the pregnancy was a great big red flag and should have warned these EMTs that this had the potential to go very bad very fast. I would hate to be them, and not just because of the public censure and loss of job, but I don't know that I could carry the burden of the deaths of a young mother and her child.

[VentMedic]

There's probably more to this story but a lesson can still be learned from it. When you are in uniform, either on or off duty, be careful what you say and do or how you say and do something. Those who like to wear some type of EMT patch or shirt 24/7 may fall under scrutiny some day and may not even be aware of it. You do get noticed regardless of all those who say the public doesn't know who you are. They know what EMT means even if they don't know every little skill you can do.

The comments below the articles are also interesting.

Another article today:

Brooklyn mother rips 'heartless' EMTs who are accused of refusing to help her dying daughter

BY Simone Weichselbaum and Jonathan Lemire

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Monday, December 21st 2009, 4:00 AM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/12/21/2009-12-21_bklyn_ma_rips_callous_emts_as_heartless.html#ixzz0aLDesFP0

Interesting quote:

The two EMTs were placed on modified duty and are barred from providing patient care, FDNY officials said. Reports of their inaction infuriated Mayor Bloomberg.

"It was unconscionable," said Bloomberg. "But even if they weren't part of the Fire Department sworn to protect all of us, just normal human beings, drop your coffee and go help somebody if they're dying. Come on."

More from the Mayor:

Mayor Rips EMTs who refused to help dying pregnant mother

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/mike_rips_emts_in_preg_mom_death_5d0UDQYANcSrLDN4ZnqitI

Edited December 21, 2009 by VentMedic

[P_Instructor]

Interesting quote:

The two EMTs were placed on modified duty and are barred from providing patient care, FDNY officials said. Reports of their inaction infuriated Mayor Bloomberg.

"It was unconscionable," said Bloomberg. "But even if they weren't part of the Fire Department sworn to protect all of us, just normal human beings, drop your coffee and go help somebody if they're dying. Come on."

I don't know much about Bloomberg, but that is the most sensible thing that I've ever heard of........at least he is willing to speak out. Thank Vent.

[P_Instructor]

Published thru AAOS Emergency Care in the Streets, 9th edition:

"A variety of laws and ordinances, many of which differ considerably from state to state, regulate the actions of the paramedic. However, the most important premise affecting paramedics is one that doesn't appear in any of the statute books; it is the rule of doing what is best for the patient."

"Paramedics always have the responsiblility to act in a reasonable and prudent manner and to provide appropriate care and transportation consistent with their education and training, their medical director's protocols, and the tranport protocols in their EMS system.'

I add that this should be done at all times, whether on duty or not, whether ordering a bagel or not.

[VentMedic]

I add that this should be done at all times, whether on duty or not, whether ordering a bagel or not.

I will be the first to argue that when off duty you should never put yourself or your family in harms way. You should not be forced to pull over on a busy highway to stop at every accident scene. You should not be forced to run into a burning building or dive into the ocean to rescue someone while off duty. However, you can still call 911. I only stop if there is something I can reasonably do and in a manner that I will not become another rescue or patient. For a situation like the one in the article, you can at least appear to be concerned. Since they were on duty, there is no excuse. But then, I'm sure the union will post a statement soon defending these two and their break time.

Edited December 21, 2009 by VentMedic

[P_Instructor]

I will be the first to argue that when off duty you should never put yourself or your family in harms way. You should not be forced to pull over on a busy highway to stop at every accident scene. You should not be forced to run into a burning building or dive into the ocean to rescue someone while off duty. However, you can still call 911. I only stop if there is something I can reasonably do and in a manner that I will not become another rescue or patient. For a situation like the one in the article, you can at least appear to be concerned. Since they were on duty, there is no excuse. But then, I'm sure the union will post a statement soon defending these two and their break time.

You are correct. My opinion does not really represent what was intended. What you stated is the opinion I did want to mention.

[EMS49393]

When did this become (again) a way to treat seizure patients???????

Assuming they were just good Samaritans and perhaps were off duty with no gear, they did exactly what I would have done in that situation. I don't carry one piece of gear with me when I'm off duty. I also don't wear EMS or fire related clothing off duty, but that's another issue. What else could I do if someone was having an active seizure while I'm out slumming in my favorite fabric store except protect them from harming themselves and call 911? I can attempt to gather as much information as I can for the incoming EMS unit, but honestly my first priority is making sure the patient doesn't slam their head against the floor or other hard object during the event. Sounds to me that the good Samaritans, if they had no equipment accessible, did an appropriate job.

As for the other people involved. I know how stories can be falsified or enhanced. From the information we have so far, they appear to be guilty as sin for negligence, but it's not for me to judge them, especially with such limited information from a newspaper. I'll be more interested to see how things pan our for them in the end.

As for the lady involved, it was truly tragic. God Bless their family, and other child, during this time.