EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

[P_Instructor]

......said that all FDNY members "take an oath to assist others whenever they're in need of emergency medical care. It's their sworn duty."

A union spokesman said Monday that EMTs generally consider their jobs to be a 24-hour kind of thing.

"Our people tend to spring into action whether they're on duty, off duty, whatever they're doing," said Robert Ungar, spokesman for the Uniformed EMTS and Paramedics, FDNY.

The city's EMTs have a "very strong bond with the people of New York City that they serve," he said. "They view themselves as always being on duty."

He said the union was waiting to see what the results of the Fire Department's investigation would be.

"If there was unprofessional conduct by these EMTs, the union does not condone any type of conduct which in any way can harm members of the public," he said.

On Monday, Bloomberg repeated comments he made over the weekend criticizing the EMTs, saying refusing to help goes against human decency.

"There's no excuse whatsoever," he said.

The process is moving faster that I expected........see posted NEWS ROBOT entry of entire article.

[Richard B the EMT]

1) These were EMTs, apparently, and not Paramedics. 2) When I left what would become FDNY EMS EMD in 1996, unless there were some major problem in progress, like a Computer Assisted Dispatch system crash, we'd get 2 twenty minute breaks, and a 40 minute meal break, during an 8 hour tour. The 2 twenties were never to be during the first or final hours of the tour. EMD was probably the only area almost assured of getting scheduled breaks. Field-side, there was no guarentee of a break, and you could be called off a break to handle assignments. As far as I know, this continues today. 3) As of this time, first you are an EMT BEFORE they train you as a call taker, and then a dispatcher (possibly to be changed, as they are trying the Unified Call Takers protocols for the NYC 9-1-1 system, where the callers would talk with a PD "Communications Tech"). 4) As members of the FDNY, they would be in uniform, or in pullover shirts, or "workshirts" that say FDNY EMD. I doubt if they would change out of the uniform just for a break or meal. 5) The FDNY HQ building has a newspaper stand off of the lobby, where they also sell FDNY workshirts. As they don't say Fire Fighter, EMT, or Paramedic, I know some of the HQ civilian staffers wear them. 6) All uniformed members of the FDNY, from the person in their first day of the academy, to Chief of Department Salvadore Cassano, either have CPR and First Aid training, or will get it before they can wear the full uniform. Obviously, EMTs and Paramedics will have more training than that. 6-A) Chief Cassano is going to be the new Fire Commissioner, January 1, 2010, as current commissioner Nicholas Scopetta steps down. 7) Fire Fighters are "repped" by different unions than the EMS people. However, if it becomes clear that any member of any of these unions did something that puts the department, or the union, into "disrepute", the union leadership might actually hold the door open as the department kicks the individuals out that door. Disclaimer: The views I express in this posting may not reflect the viewpoints of either the FDNY, or Local 2507 of DC 37 AFSCME, although I am a member of both.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Richard B the EMT

[FormerEMSLT297]

First of all, whether they were EMT's Medics, or Dispatchers ( all of whom are at least EMT's) It does not matter. You are standing there in uniform, and therefor, you are probably bound by a "duty to act".

Having said that there probably is/was not a lot they could do, seeing as how they had or it sounds like they had NO EQUIPMENT. This does not excuse the fact that they LEFT THE SCENE.

Should've stayed, done CPR, or at LEAST Compressions, called 9-1-1 upgraded the call to a Cardiac Arrest, whatever.

But ,, Whats up with the union throwing them under the bus like that ?????....

As a dues paying member of a union, I expect more from them than that comment.. Something like "We are awiting the outcome of the investigation",,, whatever... WTF, I'm so GLAD I AM NOT in that union anymore.

One thing for the Mayor and Fire Chief to slam my, but my own UNION. Kinda like your own LAWYER submarining you.

[WolfmanHarris]

It's not always about the treatment they could or could not have provided, this case to me is more about the uniform they were wearing and the service they represent. For example, our Logistics department staff who drive vehicles clearly marked as "LOGISTICS" and wear uniforms marked as such, they are still required by P&P to stop and provide basic first aid when required or requested and to call 911 and remain on scene until a Paramedic crew arrives.

When we're placed on our 10-90 (40 min break) we're not required to respond to standby's, minor calls or transfers and are considered unavailable for all but Code 4 calls. Usually another truck, if available is moved into our area to cover breaks. We are placed at a base for this period but can take it mobile if we desire. However, if we're mobile and closest to a call, we will be assigned. If our break is interrupted for a call we're given another one once we clear unless we're outside our meal window in which case the service pays us $15.00 per missed break.

[CBEMT]

But ,, Whats up with the union throwing them under the bus like that ?????....

As a dues paying member of a union, I expect more from them than that comment.. Something like "We are awiting the outcome of the investigation",,, whatever... WTF, I'm so GLAD I AM NOT in that union anymore.

One thing for the Mayor and Fire Chief to slam my, but my own UNION. Kinda like your own LAWYER submarining you.

I think the union president has enough sense to tell that when you're this wrong, it doesn't do the local any good to go to war with the city over this. They'll still lose, and look bad doing it.

I have no doubt he'll make sure they get all the rights they're entitled to in the disciplinary process, and then, as Richard said, hold the door for them.

If I was a member of that union, I'd want them to do nothing less for my collegues.

And ABSOLUTELY nothing more.

[Dustdevil]

But ,, Whats up with the union throwing them under the bus like that ?????....

LOL! Perfect reply for an FDNY post!

[Eydawn]

Look, it's always easier to justify taking action in the best interest of someone than it is to defend yourself against allegations of neglect. That's my gut feeling on this.

We don't know what happened. We don't know exactly what the EMTs' status was at the time this happened, and what their field qualifications are. I'll give you that. But you BETTER be ready to stop what you're doing and at least attempt to render aid if you're going to be wearing something that identifies you! If you want to really take your break and not have people recognize you, put on a jacket that covers up your patches. Don't wear your sweatshirt with patches on it while off-duty.

The way I look at it: If you're in uniform or any clothing identifying you as a member of emergency services, be prepared to assess the situation just like you would if you're on duty. Call 911 and request PD to get there if you feel unsafe, and then do the best you can and explain that you don't have an ALS kit in your back pocket.

I agree that this may have been a lose/lose, but it always looks worse to do nothing than it does to attempt SOMETHING. Draft bystanders to help you. Make people feel like something is being done until the cavalry arrives. We all agree that there is an image issue with regard to EMS... do something to help bolster our image. Purport yourself professionally, and if you are unable to start providing care, explain why but do whatever you can to help in other fashions as well.

As for the comment about them not getting to eat... this is why the smart ones carry granola bars in their pockets or vehicles. Sure, you absolutely need to eat. Bring some emergency rations, for crying out loud!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[VentMedic]

Quote from an article previously referenced by paramedicmike in post #36:

http://ny1.com/1-all-boroughs-news-content/top_stories/110776/two-emts-suspended-after-they-allegedly-ignore-dying-woman

Jeff Samerson, a representative from the EMT and paramedics union said that the EMTs followed protocol.

"[Jackson] called 911. She didn't have an ambulance. She didn't have equipment. She does not work in the field as an active EMT in an ambulance," he said. "She is a dispatcher. She works as an emergency medical dispatcher. [Green] is also a dispatcher. These are people that are not in the field, that have not had patient contact in years. And they did the best they could."

Another article:

FDNY EMTs may get jail time after refusing treatment

December 24, 2009

http://www.ems1.com/ems-management/articles/734145-FDNY-EMTs-may-get-jail-time-after-refusing-treatment/

By Murray Weiss, Alex Ginsberg and Dan Mangan

The New York Post

NEW YORK — Brooklyn prosecutors are eyeing stiff charges that carry potential prison time for the two EMTs accused of failing to help a dying, pregnant woman on their coffee break, The Post has learned.

The EMTs — Jason Green and Melisa Jackson — will likely be slapped with reckless-endangerment raps if the District Attorney's Office determines they acted criminally in connection with the Dec. 9 deaths of Au Bon Pain worker Eutisha Rennix, 25, and her prematurely born baby, sources said.

First-degree reckless endangerment carries a maximum seven-year prison term upon conviction, while the second-degree charge calls for a one-year max.

In building their case, prosecutors are focusing on regulations that obligate EMTs to provide help to people whenever there is an emergency, sources said.

Au Bon Pain staffers have said Green, 32, and his 23-year-old girlfriend, Jackson — both of whom work as dispatchers in the same Downtown Brooklyn building as the coffee shop — refused to look at the stricken Rennix after being told she was in distress.

Sources shot down a union official's claim that the two hadn't treated a patient in years, saying they had recently been recertified and were more than capable of helping Rennix.

Their lawyer, Douglas Rosenthal, said, "While I cannot discuss any charges, as none have been served yet, I am confident the true facts and evidence will establish my clients acted appropriate to the best of their abilities."

Yesterday, Rennix's mom, Cynthia Rennix, called Green and Jackson "very inhuman and heartless."

"They have a duty to act, and they should have acted on that duty," the grieving mom told The Post. "I mean, if this was your own [daughter], how would you feel?"

The city Medical Examiner's Office said it told the family it would foot the bill to have Rennix's body exhumed and an autopsy conducted. Her mother said she hasn't decided yet.

Before the allegations against the EMTs came to light, "she would have rested in peace, and the family would have moved on," the mom said. "But because of new information, I don't know where to begin."

Jeff Samerson, an executive with EMS Union Local 2507, yesterday resigned after members blasted him for coming to the defense of Green and Jackson Monday, when he told reporters the pair "have not had patient contact in years."

Later, he changed his tune, saying, "I think they should be fired. They had a duty to act, and they didn't."

[Richard B the EMT]

I spent 11 years in what would become the EMD, pre the FDNY EMS merger. I had to maintain my EMT certs, because I, more than occasionally, would be detailed field side to work a field unit, while assigned to EMS "Communications Bureau".

Then, again, I was a Complaint Receiving Operator, not a Dispatcher (tried out twice and didn't make it). CROs had more chance to be "detailed" out to the field for a day than dispatchers, or at least that is how it seemed to me.

[fireflymedic]

This story identifies the two in question as dispatchers.

Not that I'm arguing in their favor, nor do I think it excuses their behaviour of leaving the shop, but it seems they might not have been field personnel.

There are three sides to every story.

-be safe

Indeed there are three sides. The initial reporting that I heard identified them as EMT's which led to my intial outrage. However, I do have the same concern that others did. Why not call 911 and at least keep her from bashing her head in? Might be a smart idea. I know they at least were aware to do that as I would imagine FDNY dispatchers can give some pre-arrival instructions similar to those given throughout the country for basic first aid. Even walmart greeters have that knowledge to prevent them from hurting themselves. I'm not bashing them for their inability to act due to lack of equipment, that's perfectly excusable. If you don't have it, you can't use it. But they could have done basic first aid which I'm fairly certain they were competent enough to perform. It is the callous attitude they reacted with that bothers me such. The "it's not my job" mentality that I don't care for. Just my opinion....