EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

[aussiephil]

Indeed there are three sides. The initial reporting that I heard identified them as EMT's which led to my intial outrage. However, I do have the same concern that others did. Why not call 911 and at least keep her from bashing her head in? Might be a smart idea. I know they at least were aware to do that as I would imagine FDNY dispatchers can give some pre-arrival instructions similar to those given throughout the country for basic first aid. Even walmart greeters have that knowledge to prevent them from hurting themselves. I'm not bashing them for their inability to act due to lack of equipment, that's perfectly excusable. If you don't have it, you can't use it. But they could have done basic first aid which I'm fairly certain they were competent enough to perform. It is the callous attitude they reacted with that bothers me such. The "it's not my job" mentality that I don't care for. Just my opinion....

On thing that, in my service, all call takers & dispatchers are rewuired to hold is a current first aid certificate. This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly it is to assist in the recognition of a serios problem over the phon, but not to dispense advice. Secondly, they are employees who wear a uniform that signifies the work for an ambulance service. If they see something & fail to act then ALL in EMS are tarred wit the same brush. People do not understand the difference in uniforms, they see the symbols & assume that you are there to help. With the prevelence of cell phones today, they can book a call, render first aid & hand over as soon as a duty crew arrive on scene. The only other solution is to abandon dispatch wearing uniform, & the prolem there is it can create more of an Us & Them problem than we already have.

[Kiwiology]

On thing that, in my service, all call takers & dispatchers are rewuired to hold is a current first aid certificate. This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly it is to assist in the recognition of a serios problem over the phon, but not to dispense advice. Secondly, they are employees who wear a uniform that signifies the work for an ambulance service. If they see something & fail to act then ALL in EMS are tarred wit the same brush. People do not understand the difference in uniforms, they see the symbols & assume that you are there to help. With the prevelence of cell phones today, they can book a call, render first aid & hand over as soon as a duty crew arrive on scene. The only other solution is to abandon dispatch wearing uniform, & the prolem there is it can create more of an Us & Them problem than we already have.

Interesting point. Our Police call-takers and dispatchers are the only ones not to wear a uniform and that is purely because in order to wear a uniform with "Police" written on it requires you to be a sworn Constable, apart from that Fire and Ambulance both wear uniforms. The Ambulance EMD uniform is generically indistinquishable from the ambo's except if you look hard enough it says "Emergency Medical Dispatcher" on the patches as opposed to AO/Paramedic etc and St John has epaulettes which say "Communications" instead of "Ambulance", but I do believe they are being removed in favour of ones that just say "St John", probably a bright idea of some marketing twit.

Our EMDs do a generic advanced first aid course as part of thier induction, but interestingly enough it does not carry a "scope of practice" and has no CTP/ATP issued as part of it. Legally they don't get an ATP and as a result they are not able to use the clinical procedures so I'm not sure how that would work if they ended up in a situation where providing some form of physical patient care was required. I immagine they would simply be acting as a layperson using thier first aid certificate.

There has also been (as part of a uniform review over the past 12-18 months) the issue of people who sell sundry shit for the Johnno's wearing the same generic uniform as Ambulance Officers and problems around them being mistaken for ambo's at MVAs etc.

<insert vehement displeasure at a "generic" operational uniform here, if not already alluded to>

In the past Ambulance/EMD was white unders with dark blue on top and maroon eppaultes (which didn't look too bad truth be told) while other frist responder/events were black/white and Education was .... green? I think. This created a clear distinction between who was who however was abandoned in the early 2000s, in part to rid out the cultural divide you speak of.

We could sit here and argue uniform semantics until I am hypoxic and pass out but I think the larger issue at hand is that what these guys did was inexcusable and makes me puke.

[Lone Star]

Even the video response by the union representative identified them as EMT's. If you hold the credentials to be called an EMT, then it's logical to presume that you've got the knowledge of what to do, and therefore a duty to act.

If you DON'T have the credentials, then stop 'sporting the title'!

I've been late to work on many occasions (even BEFORE becoming an EMT); because I witnessed an MVC, or stopped to render aid to those that needed it.

If, according to Richard (whom I do NOT doubt on credibility issues), these people have had BLS education (at the vvery least); then they should have done SOMETHING to help this woman until a rig arrived!

The fact that they just continued to buy their breakfast and walk away makes it that much more deplorable!

[fireflymedic]

On thing that, in my service, all call takers & dispatchers are rewuired to hold is a current first aid certificate. This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly it is to assist in the recognition of a serios problem over the phon, but not to dispense advice. Secondly, they are employees who wear a uniform that signifies the work for an ambulance service. If they see something & fail to act then ALL in EMS are tarred wit the same brush. People do not understand the difference in uniforms, they see the symbols & assume that you are there to help. With the prevelence of cell phones today, they can book a call, render first aid & hand over as soon as a duty crew arrive on scene. The only other solution is to abandon dispatch wearing uniform, & the prolem there is it can create more of an Us & Them problem than we already have.

In this area, the vast majority of the calls are dispatched via state police posts and with the north and southern counties as well. Western and central tend to favor individualized dispatch from the city or county. However, I know all coming from post are at a minimum first responder trained and required to maintain certs and many are basics already. The same applies to the vast majority of county based services as well. They also go through a 4 week EMD course to be able to deliver pre arrival instructions and prioritize calls. They are also certified and more than able to render basic first aid. Obviously they can only do within their scope (as first responder) and can only utilize what they have. No supplies, then they cannot use what they do not have. But common sense and a little heart goes a long way. Again there's no way to tell that she would have survived anyway - there's no way to tell for sure. However, it's without question both she and the baby would have had a much better chance had at least basic care been given.

[chaser]

Wow that is really terrible, I would believe when someone gets that calloused, prehaps its time for a new career.

Too true!! How self important do these idiots think they are? They can't skip a break and help this woman and her baby? How heartless and sad. Maybe they could have saved her, maybe not. But at least to have tried might have saved her, her baby, and her young son from being left without his Mom. Just plain cold hearted.

[tskstorm]

Too true!! How self important do these idiots think they are? They can't skip a break and help this woman and her baby? How heartless and sad. Maybe they could have saved her, maybe not. But at least to have tried might have saved her, her baby, and her young son from being left without his Mom. Just plain cold hearted.

I guess they should have assumed she had another kid ... I'm sure they were laughing to themselves as the walked out, "haha stupid kid has no mother now!"

C'mon, I'm not defending their lackadaisical attitude, or their ignorance to their job. Let's keep somethings in perspective, try another view point ...

Jack and Jill EMT on their break, "someones turning blue" states john q public "haha you're funny cool joke I can't do anything because I'm on break" says jack

"I remember them saying they couldn't do anything because they were on their break," another worker said. "We started screaming and cursing at them."

Quoted from http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/emt_duo_on_break_let_preg_mom_die_mrj8Jv8kjmS0Z3FNO4DmiL#ixzz0apMia5R8

Oh people are cursing at us think Jack and Jill, Scene Safety let me leave and go get help as I call 9-1-1

Some how I don't think they were heartless enough to purposefully leave her their because she had a kid and was pregnant, and god only knows how long it will take until this is turned into a racial event.

[ewfc19]

I think this looks bad... but I really want to hear the full story down the road.

I try to avoid wearing EMS uniforms when off duty... but it happens sometimes that I'll stop briefly on my way to/from work. If I plan on running errands after a shift, I bring a change of clothes.

[chaser]

I guess they should have assumed she had another kid ... Let's keep somethings in perspective, try another view point ...

joke I can't do anything because I'm on break" says jack...

What perspective is that?

What view point are you taking about?

...Some how I don't think they were heartless enough to purposefully leave her their because she had a kid and was pregnant, and god only knows how long it will take until this is turned into a racial event.

Seems they were, and they did. Don't even try to play the race card.

[tskstorm]

Seems

What it seems to you.

Doesn't seem that way to me.

I see a distinct difference in never having seen a patient like this case, and callously stepping over someone in need. The latter is what people seem to think it is. I don't see them as the same.

Errors were made. Patient should have been treated different, still doesn't mean there are no other perspectives.

The race card will be played, not by me, but before this is all over.

Edited December 27, 2009 by tskstorm

[Richard B the EMT]

The race card will be played, not by me, but before this is all over.

I'd suggest you not go there. While I have stated I don't know these 2 EMTs, as they both started in EMD years after I had left, please entertain the possibility they, like the deceased, are black, too.

If it was a case where even the possibility of the race card was being played, the Reverend Al Sharpton would have held a press conference at the door of either the EMD, or in front of FDNY Headquarters by now. Much as I don't like the guy, this would be an instance where I'd agree with him.