A&P class even before EMT-B class?

[chbare]

Agree, general chemistry is the way to go, and you would need a year of general chemistry to look at organic chemistry anyway. General chem will give you a great foundation regarding electrolytes, reactions, acid base, gas laws, and good lab experience. You will be exposed to principles of organic chemistry as well. It's amazing when you are doing a lecture on equilibrium and suddenly make the connection of why giving bicarb can increase the CO2. Many concepts will make sense in A&P and paramedic school that would otherwise be lost.

Some colleges have intro and basic chem classes aimed at health students. Some are very good; however, make sure the class curriculum is comprehensive and a good lab experience is offered. I can state my thoughts on what should be covered if any body is interested.

Take care,

chbare.

[Kiwiology]

...I can state my thoughts on what should be covered if any body is interested.

That would be helpful

[Burlyskink]

I took A&P at my high school(for college credits of course) during my EMT-B class and helped me out significantly. Some of my class mates would not understand why the body did certain things and my instructor would have to explain it, where as I knew from the get go.

[chbare]

That would be helpful

I will later today. Have a dental problem to sort out this morning.

Take care,

chbare.

[VentMedic]

I took A&P at my high school(for college credits of course) during my EMT-B class and helped me out significantly. Some of my class mates would not understand why the body did certain things and my instructor would have to explain it, where as I knew from the get go.

It definitely makes a big difference when the students already have some prerequisite classes such as A&P. That of course is the reason why all the other health care professions have an extensive list for the students to complete before they are allowed to enter a program. Both the EMT and the Paramedic programs are way too short with the "hours of training" clock ticking away. When a lot of time is spent explaining basic A&P it takes time away from other concepts that should be covered very thoroughly.

If one reads Nancy Caroline's Paramedic text, it is embarrassing that stories like Sidney Sinus and Abe AV node must be used because it is assumed no college level A&P was required. I have also tried to teach CPAP and a few basic ventilator concepts to Paramedics who give me a deer in headlights look when I mention preload, afterload, cardiac output, pulmonary or systemic vascular resistance,lymphatic system, gas exchange or intrathoracic pressure. Thus, some instructors do get frustrated and just say "CPAP pushes out lung water" or maybe some instructors themselves do not have the education to teach the topic appropriately since there are not many standards for EMS educators. It is also frustrating to think these same Paramedics are giving medications that can affect all of the hemodynamics and whose only defense will be "it in my protocols".

So start early with advancing your education. Having college level A&P will definitely help you for an EMT-B class and should be, but isn't, mandatory for a Paramedic program.

Edited January 5, 2010 by VentMedic

[chbare]

The following are concepts I would look at for a basic chemistry course:

1) Introductory Material

-Historical prospectives

-Chemistry Defined

-Matter Defined

-Energy Defined

-States of Matter

-Basics of physical & chemical properties

-Basics of the scientific method

+Observation

+Law, Theory, Hypothesis

+Testing & Validation

+Precision & Accuracy

-The metric system

-Basics of measurement and significant digits

-Scientific notation & conversions

2) Basics of Atomic Structure and Elements

-Historical and present definition and explanation of the atomic model

-Survey of the gross components of an atom (Proton, Neutron, Electron)

-Element defined

-Periodic table overview and relation to the elements (Atomic number, weight, groups, periods, etc)

-Concept of charge and +/- relationship

-Concept of isotopes and nuclear decay (alpha, beta, gamma, and positrons)

-Concept of the half life

-Concepts of the electron "shells," valence electron,s and the concept of the Octet rule

3) Basics of compounds

-Ionic bonds

-Electronegativity concepts

-Covalent bonds

-Polar versus non-polar and basic geometry

-Polyatomic ionic compounds

-Avogadro's Number, the mole, and basic concepts

-Basic concepts of molarity

-Suspensions, Solutions, Colloids, and calculating molarity & Eq/mEq

4) Survey of organic compounds

-Concepts, formal charge, carbon as a backbone

-Polar and non-polar/electronegativity revisited

-Review of non-covalent interactions and bonds (hydrogen bonding, ion-dipole, London forces, Salt bridges, dipole-dipole)

-Overview of hydrocarbons (Alkanes, Alkenes, Alkynes, Aromatics)

-Basics of Alcohols, Carboxylic acids, & Esters

-Basics of the IUPAC

-Basics of isomers and conformation

-Basics of lipids, fats, and membranes (Solvent & solute movement principles ie: diffusion, osmosis, facilitated diffusion, active transport)

-Basic concept of tonicity: Hyper, hypo, iso

-Basics of carbohydrates

-Basics of protein

+Structure

+Peptide binding

+Amino acids

+Proteins

+ Structure of protein (primary, secondary, tertiary, quaternary)

+Effect of various derangements (PH for example) on non-covalent bonds and conformation

5) States of matter

-States redux

-Basics of state transition

-Basic heat energy formulas

-Entropy & Enthalpy

-Boyle's Law

-Gay Lussac's Law

-Charle's Law

-Combined Gas Law

-Ideal Gas Law

-Basic properties and structure of liquids and solids

6) Chemical Equations & Reactions

-Basic setup

-Balancing

-Endothermic versus exothermic

-Specifics

+Redox

+Combustion & Decomposition

+Hydrolysis & Hydrogenation

-Mole and mass relationship redux

-Percent yield, limiting reactant, actual yield, theoretical yield

-Reaction rates and basic concepts of enzymes

7) Acid/Base Chemistry

-Acids

-Bases

-Basic formulas

-Bronsted, Lewis, and conjugate concepts

-Basics of the -Log & PH scale

-Le Chatelier's Principle, equilibrium, and titration

-Effects of PH changes on bonds

*An emphasis of these concepts in a conceptual form and how they apply to the human body throughout the course.

Take care,

chbare.

[penguin_pong]

I’m going to take an A&P class before EMT-Basic. I might even take the First Responder class before the EMT-Basic class since I don’t have that much prior experience to EMS other than what I learn from EMT city.

I’m going to take an A&P class before EMT-Basic. I might even take the First Responder class before the EMT-Basic class since I don’t have that much prior experience to EMS other than what I learn from EMT city.

[AnthonyM83]

General (inorganic at some schools) chem and biochem. I honestly don't see a need for o-chem for EMS. In fact, one of the few things I remember from O-Chem is that SN2 reactions does it from behind.

Heh, GIGGITY.

Biochem wouldn't hurt for paramedic school, though for sake of understanding things like pharmacology and toxicology...but that would depend on how in-depth your chem and pharm lectures in school are.

I have also tried to teach CPAP and a few basic ventilator concepts to Paramedics who give me a deer in headlights look when I mention preload, afterload, cardiac output, pulmonary or systemic vascular resistance,lymphatic system, gas exchange or intrathoracic pressure.

Scary. All of those terms and some of the basic accompanying formulas are covered at the local EMT-B school here, as some of them apply to understanding of the drugs they can assist with, such as NTG. Many of the "good" students have at least basic rudimentary understanding of them and use them when being quizzed on EMT pharm during their ride-alongs...

Lisa, take the most in-depth A&P course you can find, provided that you meet the prerequisites and won't end up overwhelmed to the point it hurts what you gain from the class. Students with A&P or simply biology backgrounds assimilate the concepts much faster, as they have more "concept hooks" to integrate the new material with in their thinking. This makes it easier to remember the new EMT material.

You'll be much more confident when you go to paramedic school, too. Instead of waiting until then to start understanding the underlying disease processes, you'll start at the EMT level. By the time you get to medic school, a lot of that info will already be second nature to you. Which will let you take away even more from each paramedic class session.

It also lets you ask more intelligent questions of the other healthcare personnel you'll see at the ERs.