Jwade Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Something else to think about is that if you are serious about the flight nursing, most will require a BSN any more. I know a lot of HEMS in Michigan have phased out the Medic/Nurse and are going to Nurse/Nurse. One, that I know of, is RN/MD..An ADN is not going to cut it in a very competitive market in the near future; certainly not a matriculation from medic to RN... Just some food for thought..... First of all, There is NOT a lot of HEMS in michigan to begin with...So, lets clear that up first and foremost. Second, Survival Flight has been RN/RN or RN/Resident MD for many years. Third, The HEMS program in Western Michigan has been flying RN/MD also for many years. This is NOTHING new and has been that way when I lived and worked in Detroit. Fourth, The HEMS program that flies out of St.Joes in Ann Arbor continues to fly RN/EMT-P to this day. Fifth, a BSN really does not provide much more education in the way of patient care, a few VERY BASIC management classes, maybe a stats class or finance....I would still hire a 10 year ADN ICU nurse over a 3 year BSN ANY day of the week! Respectfully, JW
spenac Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 And to clear things up even more with so many fly by night ( pun intended ) flight ambulances now many even will fly with an EMT-B and either RN or Paramedic crew. So flight is no longer the land of only the best and most educated. Sorry to burst the egos and bubbles.
RavEMTGun Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) And to clear things up even more with so many fly by night ( pun intended ) flight ambulances now many even will fly with an EMT-B and either RN or Paramedic crew. So flight is no longer the land of only the best and most educated. Sorry to burst the egos and bubbles. I can't believe this. Name some P/B flight services Edited January 8, 2010 by RavEMTGun
chbare Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 MSP had a single PM setup and then pulled a first responder from the scene. I am not sure if they still operate like this? The BSN transition at many schools does not have a strong focus on "hard" science education or clinical experience. Not to say classes such as "the world at large" are not worthwile; however, the focus is not on critical care and acute care clinical experience. With that, all other things equal, I would choose the BSN. Take care, chbare.
VentMedic Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I can't believe this. Name some P/B flight services Maryland State Police flies only one Paramedic and may pick up a volunteer EMT from a ground crew to assist. The ground member killed in the Trooper 2 crash was a volunteer EMT. Several FD HEMS also fly one Paramedic and sometimes it might just be a ground Paramedic with not extra training. We have one in FL that is owned by the Sheriff's Office and would fly a S.O. pilot to the scene to pick up the patient and a Paramedic. They then flew "real fast" to Miami. They are now staffed by full time RNs. There are also a few other S.O. EMS helicopters that still just pick up any Paramedic including the one that couldn't get the tube or IV in on the ground. I also know that some of those who failed our application process miserably for a variety of reasons can walk into some of the less reputable services and be a superstar.
fireflymedic Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Depends on the area you want to work, but in this area (and almost all that I'm aware of) they require the RN's to have at least their EMT basic. Several of the better programs require dual medic and RN with 3-5 years experience in each. Flight is a highly competitive environment and the more you have going for you, the better your chances. Typically, RN's make more and there are several programs that fly dual RN so it's not like it would be useless, and if you have your medic, then you are even more marketable as you can fill either void if qualified. The comments that others have made regarding education standards are so true and RN's definitely have a more in depth knowledge of medications than your average paramedic. There are some terrific critical care programs out there for medics, but as JWade said, you may have to be willing to go out of state to further your education. Also, as a medic when your body can no longer handle the job, you have extremely limited options - it's either education or management or retire. Pretty much it. An RN has alot of different things. In the flight environment, you will deal with alot of medications that you will likely not see on the streets, even as a critical care medic. Having the knowledge of these drugs is invaluable and a great experienced ICU nurse can be of fantastic benefit to you. All of that being said, being a medic is fantastic, and if the prehospital environment is what you love, go do it, and go PRN or part time with somewhere as an RN or vice versa. You'll at least be able to live decently off an RN salary, whereas a medic you'll likely be working multiple services. Good luck in whatever you choose.
ccmedoc Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 First of all, There is NOT a lot of HEMS in michigan to begin with...So, lets clear that up first and foremost. Second, Survival Flight has been RN/RN or RN/Resident MD for many years. Third, The HEMS program in Western Michigan has been flying RN/MD also for many years. This is NOTHING new and has been that way when I lived and worked in Detroit. Fourth, The HEMS program that flies out of St.Joes in Ann Arbor continues to fly RN/EMT-P to this day. Fifth, a BSN really does not provide much more education in the way of patient care, a few VERY BASIC management classes, maybe a stats class or finance....I would still hire a 10 year ADN ICU nurse over a 3 year BSN ANY day of the week! Respectfully, JW I think I can let this post speak for itself...A look into the curriculum would prove this wrong... I believe there are seven or so flight programs in Michigan, Kzoo switched to RN/RN some time ago, and the couple in Mid Mich are making motions that way..That is not a debate here though..Maybe I should have said most instead of a lot in my post...... Probably N-Flight and the St. Joes will be the last two.. At any rate, there is more to a BSN education that stats and management, and I cant remember finance being part of it....pre-requisites are more science oriented with additional emphasis on evidence based medicine, pharmacology, chemistry, etc...I think the programs make you a better thinking and more well rounded Nurse. Understanding the process a little better. But I am biased for sure..I guess if increased knowledge and education about interventions, outcomes, and critical thinking doesnt provide better patient care, then I am way off base to prefer the BSN model.. Go for the BSN then the medic.. It will make you more marketable at least...
chbare Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Really depends on the programme; however, the jump from ADN to BSN is not big in the way of "hard science" and clinical courses in my area of the country. The clinical requirement for the AD to BSN programme is a 36 hour community health rotation. The only "hard" course is a 3 credit online nursing pathophysiology course. While I would always advocate people go for a BSN, the state of nursing education is so chaotic, the difference in the finished product (new grad) is going to vary significantly. Take care, chbare.
ccmedoc Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Really depends on the programme; however, the jump from ADN to BSN is not big in the way of "hard science" and clinical courses in my area of the country. The clinical requirement for the AD to BSN programme is a 36 hour community health rotation. The only "hard" course is a 3 credit online nursing pathophysiology course. While I would always advocate people go for a BSN, the state of nursing education is so chaotic, the difference in the finished product (new grad) is going to vary significantly. Take care, chbare. IMO the ADN to BSN is quite a bit different than the basic BSN program. with online classes and the limited interaction of the transition, I think you (the students) get more out of a traditional program and that is specifically what I was speaking to.. Online matriculation is adequate at best. The clinical rotations and focus are different between a ADN program and a BSN program..(transitions not withstanding..Medic to ADN is another area fraught with inadequacies... I think BSN nurses that started a bachelors program think different than ADN nurses that transitioned..this is simply my experience, and certainly a generalization.
JakeEMTP Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I have never really understood the fascination with being a flight medic. In the area I work in, we rarely use the helicopter due to our proximity to a level one trauma centre. On the few occasions that we have had to call the helicopter to a scene, the pt. was treated and prepped for transport by the ground crew. All the helo team did was load and go. When it comes to inter facility transfers, it was the RN that performed the majority of the interventions. ie Neonates. Must be the prestige and the helmet.
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