Is this right, or an invasion of there right to freedom of speech?

[Richard B the EMT]

While attempting to relocate my source of information, I have a recollection of a domestic battle reportedly over the subject of a devout Muslim woman, who had a physical altercation with her husband, over her refusal, under her interpretation of Muslim laws, not to be seen by him when not wearing the burqa, even in the privacy of the bedroom they shared. I do not recall where this happened, or if it was even in a country where the predominant religion is Muslim.

[VentMedic]

Thats true, does it mean every time I walk through a crowded mall with my backpack on or drive to the market I should be detained or somehow "intercepted" by those responsible for "national security" coz heck I might blow the whole place sky high?

I have stopped using my backpack because of being searched so many times be it the airport, ballpark or concert events including the freebies in the park. But this actually started after the Alanta bombing at the Olympics and picked more popularity after 9/11.

However, some of the terrorists in the U.S. have hid in plain sight. That includes Oklahoma and 9/11.

Edited January 15, 2010 by VentMedic

[chbare]

We are basing this discussion on the fact that being entitled to wear certain types clothing is a fundamental human right that all nations and societies must accept? Perhaps; however, with all the other travesties such as raping, killing and genital mutilation that occurs on a daly basis in other countries, what the French do regarding their national dress code is rather unimportant at this point in time IMHO.

Take care,

chbare.

[Mateo_1387]

Matty,

does this mean that all women who wear Burka's are terrorists? Do all surfers smoke dope? Are all junkies street dwelling scum?

Generalisations like this are more detrimental & show a lack of understanding. I know many muslims who deplore the reign terror has started, but attitudes such as this will never & can never help.

for clarity, here is a quote as to why some women choose to wear a burka

Where did I say that all women who wear a burka are terrorists? Although my post was not clearly spelled out with /sarcasm at the end, I certainly have not implied what you say. Posts like this are more detrimental to discussion & show a lack of reading comprehension. /sarcasm.

Honestly though, my intention was to convey that I would like to know why the French want to ban wearing a burka before they are bombed (by true Islamic extremists that a certain number of Muslims deplore).

[aussiephil]

This topic has opened up an interestring discussion & shown some interesting feelings about this.

What I stated was a 'devils advocate' style of comment. None was meant to offend & if it did, I apologise. My point here is I know a number of muslim women who wear a burka. They do not feel oppressed by wearing it. They believe that is what they should be doing in their worship & respect of their belief.

What we need to remember is that we have extreemists in every religion. Some are more obvious than others, some are more destructive than others. Do all muslims believe that the west should be bombed, maimed & terrorised? No. Is this belief eminating through a small hard core group & being preached to people who dont know any better? Yep. It is easy to target those who choose to wear a burka, based on national security, based on identification issues. However, the vast majority of those commiting arocities are not women dressed in a burka, but men, dressed in male clothing.

Charles Manson dressed like you & me, so did David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh I am sure wasnt wearing a burka.

This is a fear that has been put into our heads, but where is the basis for it.

Isnt it just as easy to disguise oneself, if you really wanted to, as Dustin Hoffman did in Tootsie, without the aid of a Burka? Surley I could do the same damage looking like a 500 pound whale in a moo moo as a 'woman' in a burka.

[HellsBells]

Yeh but the Amish do not hide their faces from view

True, but there is some debate over whether they should have to provide pictures for their ID. In Alberta, Hutterites (Alberta's answer to the Amish) recently lost a court battle, where it was deterimed they will not be exempt from having their picture on government ID. Hutterites Lose Last Ditch Supreme Court Effort

[tniuqs]

Somewhat related ...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100119/crucifix_ban_100119/20100119?hub=TopStoriesV2

LONDON — A devout Christian went to London's High Court on Tuesday in a bid to force British Airways to admit it was wrong in demanding she stop wearing a crucifix at work.

Airport check-in clerk Nadia Eweida became the centre of a national debate over religious symbols in public life when she was sent home in November 2006 for refusing to comply with rules banning employees from wearing visible religious symbols.

BA eventually relented, changing its policy to allow Eweida to return to work.

But the 58-year-old wants BA to acknowledge the old policy amounted to religious discrimination, and she is seeking 120,000 pounds (nearly $200,000) in damages and lost wages for the roughly three months she was kept off the job.

Human rights group Liberty said it was backing Eweida's bid on legal principle. Spokeswoman Mairi Clare Rodgers said British employment tribunals had ruled against Eweida, setting "quite a dangerous precedent for people who want to express their religion." BA has denied the allegation of religious discrimination. A High Court judgment is expected in the coming weeks

.

[Richard B the EMT]

I have stopped using my backpack because of being searched so many times ...

I don't know if those EMT City members living anywhere else than New York city are aware of this, but the NYPD has random and routine checkpoints at the turnstile entrances to the subway trains. You're subject to search of any and all back packs or large packages, from after the London, England, subway train bombings.

What I find kind of strange type funny is, when I started working at the FDNY Headquarters, and started riding the subways regularly, I was carrying my assorted "stuff" in a back pack. One item I carried was a Radio Shack "Pocket Scanner" monitor radio, with it's "Rubber Ducky" antenna poking out of the bag.

Perhaps it was because I was in the work uniform of the FDNY EMS Command, but when I got to the checkpoint, not only was I not challenged, and the bag not checked, one of the LEOs actually used his fare card to "swipe" me in for free! (Would not have mattered much, as it was a free transfer on my own fare card from the bus to the subway.)

[Kiwiology]

I don't know if those EMT City members living anywhere else than New York city are aware of this, but the NYPD has random and routine checkpoints at the turnstile entrances to the subway trains.

Yup I've had that done to me on the subway.

Have to be careful too, you get caught up talking to a really interesting bum or something and bang your two hour limit on MetroCard expires and you gotta pay agian before you can get out.

.... or just go through the gate after a guy with a bike but I don't condone that; if only my chips from the Connecticut turnpike still worked on the turnstiles

[Richard B the EMT]

From my AOL Welcome screen...

Bonnie Erbe'

Columnist

France's Proposed Burqa Ban: Why Americans Might Want to Consider It Too

Posted: 01/21/10

Ban the burqa?

The French Parliament just completed six months of hearings promoted by a member of Parliament on the so-called burqa controversy. French President Nicolas Sarkozy has made no secret of his dislike for the Afghan-style garb and full-face veils, calling them "a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement."

At first, Sarkozy wanted burqas banned in all instances, but he has now stepped back to a more moderate position, seeking to have Parliament pass a law banning the full-body veil in public places and on public transportation. France, we should all remember, passed a law in 2004 banning young girls from wearing headscarves in public schools.

The burqa discussion has roiled this nation of 64 million -- some one-tenth of whom are Muslims. Sarkozy has declared that in a country where women enjoy equal rights, he does not want to see those rights debased. Only several thousand French women wear the garment, most coming from communities made up of Muslims who emigrated from former French protectorates.

But the issue of the burqa, what it symbolizes and how it resonates with immigration policies here in the U.S., raises some serious questions. Is it a sign of repression, even when the wearers aver they have "chosen" to don it? What is the impact of a woman's wearing of a burqa or a headscarf on other women in that society? These are deeply personal questions to which every woman (and man) will have a very different answer.

I have been to the Middle East more than a dozen times and have studied this issue both here and abroad. I must say that when visiting countries such as Egypt and Morocco, where native women cover all but their faces, I am not likely to go out in public in shorts and a T-shirt, as I do here at home. Some culturally tone deaf Western tourists do dress as if they're touring Disneyland, but most have the presence of mind to cover up somewhat, out of respect for another country's culture, beliefs and tradition.

I often wish Muslim immigrant women would repay the courtesy here in the U.S. Whenever I see a woman in full body garment or head scarf -- and there are plenty of them in my community, where there are many immigrants -- I take it as an affront.

I say this knowing it is highly controversial to do so, but it feels to me as if they are holding American women back. The women in my neighborhood do not cover their faces, but many go outside -- even in the stifling Washington, D.C., summers -- in full-body coverings. I wish they would adopt a "When in Rome . . ." approach and make full use of the freedoms granted to women in this great nation.

In fact, I wish the U.S. would pre-screen for women who want to take full advantage of the freedoms they gain by moving from a society that represses women to one that does not. Immigration is a privilege and not a right.

I remember speaking to a group of Westernized Iranian women years ago, not long after the Iranian Revolution of the late 1970s. One told me, "We loved our shah and do not want to see women pushed back into ancient times and dress codes under the Ayatollah."

Much more recently, an Iranian feminist told me that Iranian émigrés wearing full-body garb in this country are making an anti-Western statement by so doing. Indeed, the French inquiry into the burqa controversy supports that view, as reported by the Washington Post:

"Although veiled women are estimated to number no more than several thousand in this country of 64 million, [French Parliament Member Andre] Gerin said, behind them are what he called 'gurus' who are trying to impose Islamic law on French society.

"For instance, Gerin said, doctors at the Mother and Child Hospital in Lyon told him during a visit that they are threatened several times a week by angry Muslim men who refuse to allow their pregnant wives or daughters to be treated by male doctors, even for emergency births when nobody else is available. 'The scope of the problem is a lot broader than I thought,' he said at a news conference summing up his findings. 'It is insidious.' "

I have interviewed American Muslims, both immigrants and native-born converts, who say they choose to wear headscarves or full-body coverings. Some of them are highly educated and could easily have chosen not to do so. But, to me, many of them seemed to have ulterior motives -- motives based on acceptance into a community or by a man who provides emotional or financial support. A true choice? Perhaps, but a heavily freighted one as well.

There are many factors complicating my argument to follow France's lead: France has a historical and more knotty relationship with residents of its former colonies than we do with our Islamic émigrés. I've been asked why I am so opposed to Islamic coverings, but tolerate Catholic nuns' habits. That is fodder for subsequent columns. For now, I advise Americans to study the results of the French inquiry and launch a public debate about which lessons learned pertain to our culture.