Non-english EMT test in USA?

[DwayneEMTP]

I always fantasised that I'd run a medic school that required bilingual proficiency to even attend, and do clinicals and internships in Mexico, where they were forced to use it.

I'm as radical as the next guy about believing that those who move here should learn the language. I would not dream of moving to another society and expecting them to accommodate me without learning their language. But the truth is that you will often need such a skill, and it's a serious step towards professionalism.

But I didn't see where the OP was referencing bilingual skills, but Spanish only.

I guess I don't see the positive in this unless its a limited license to resolve a specific issue in a specific area. In most areas communication with partners, patients, hospitals, will all be severely retarded. Vent described how to do a work-around to this, but why? Unless you're telling me that those that speak Spanish only are so much more intelligent and valuable than the average English speaker then I don't really see why this should move forward.

I don't want a partner with no arms, one that is blind, one that is wheelchair bound, despite that fact that I may not only love and respect each of these people and be trumped by their intelligence, but it's not about my feelings, or their desires, it's about providing the best possible patient care while attempting to elevate EMS as well.

I may have missed some posts that make my opinion moot...but I looked pretty close...

Dwayne

[VentMedic]

But I didn't see where the OP was referencing bilingual skills, but Spanish only.

I guess I don't see the positive in this unless its a limited license to resolve a specific issue in a specific area. In most areas communication with partners, patients, hospitals, will all be severely retarded. Vent described how to do a work-around to this, but why? Unless you're telling me that those that speak Spanish only are so much more intelligent and valuable than the average English speaker then I don't really see why this should move forward.

I don't want a partner with no arms, one that is blind, one that is wheelchair bound, despite that fact that I may not only love and respect each of these people and be trumped by their intelligence, but it's not about my feelings, or their desires, it's about providing the best possible patient care while attempting to elevate EMS as well.

I may have missed some posts that make my opinion moot...but I looked pretty close...

Dwayne

Again, someone who speaks a foreign language is not less intelligent, disabled or retarded.

I also believe the language the OP is referring to is Russian.

We are also talking about the 110 hour EMT cert, less training than the CNA in many places...not Paramedic and not RN. If you don't want this to be an issue, put the EMT into the colleges with required college classes so that the requirements of the U.S. education system can be in effect. It is also possible if we became familar with the "EMT" standards from other countries, U.S. EMS might advance so just maybe their influence could be a good one.

If 2 EMTs are not required on the truck, this is probably not for 911 calls.

Do you not think that some populations wouldn't be better served for routine transports by someone who spoke their own language? Are you going to teach an 80 y/o Russian or Spanish dialysis patient who has only been in this country a couple of months how to speak English or else on a 15 minute transport?

Would you apply at any of our hospitals where Spanish is the dominant language just to exercise how superior your rights? Would you apply at Chinese Hospital in SF just to show you are the more intelligent American and those elderly Chinese people had better learn English no matter how sick they are once you're there?

It also doesn't look good if EMS either BLS or ALS can not communicate with their patients. Other countries encourage their citizens to be bilingual. We have many businesses that cater to people who speak a different language in this country. Why should health care be any different. It is also now part of the patient's rights to have their care communicated in their own language during a hospital stay in the U.S.

After the Haiti disaster there may be more Haitians allowed to enter this country for employment. However, if they do not speak English, is it safe to assume you would never allow them to be gainfully employed as a CNA or EMT on a transfer truck that also largely caters to their communities in South Florida even if that is what they had done before?

Also, as previously pointed out, Puerto Rico (Spanish) is a U.S. territory and some medical licenses from that country are recognized in the U.S. So like it or not Spanish is also very much part of the U.S. in some way.

Edited January 20, 2010 by VentMedic

[JPINFV]

After the Haiti disaster there may be more Haitians allowed to enter this country for employment. However, if they do not speak English, is it safe to assume you would never allow them to be gainfully employed as a CNA or EMT on a transfer truck that also largely caters to their communities in South Florida even if that is what they had done before?

So what happens when the Hatian that doesn't speak English needs to give report at a facility? Is s/he always going to be paired up with a bilingual partner?

Also, as previously pointed out, Puerto Rico (Spanish) is a U.S. territory and some medical licenses from that country are recognized in the U.S. So like it or not Spanish is also very much part of the U.S. in some way.

While true, the implication of your post is wrong since it implies that PR medical graduates are considered to be a foreign medical graduate. Graduates from Pounce and University of Puerto Rico are considered to be US medical graduates and if they take the USMLE (which is only offered in English), then they can gain practice rights in any state of the union.

[VentMedic]

So what happens when the Hatian that doesn't speak English needs to give report at a facility? Is s/he always going to be paired up with a bilingual partner?

Did you read any of my other posts as to how it has been done in the past? Also, unless they can speak English they will not be getting on with any FD to do 911 EMS. I also used the words "may be allowed". Right now it is very difficult for Haitians to get a permit or to even be allowed entry into this country so you can rest easy that there may not be that many or any Haitians allowed into this country to have a chance at becoming EMTs to drag down EMS. However, I hope some will see past their prejudices to allow those willing to work into this country.

BTW, there are also many Haitians who are bilingual because even in a country that is looked down upon by some Americans and the U.S. government. Its school systems did encourage a second language.

While true, the implication of your post is wrong since it implies that PR medical graduates are considered to be a foreign medical graduate. Graduates from Pounce and University of Puerto Rico are considered to be US medical graduates and if they take the USMLE (which is only offered in English), then they can gain practice rights in any state of the union.

I did NOT say anything specific about doctors. There are more medical professions than just Doctors and EMTs. I can't and won't cover each and every one of them. I already posted a link about RNs and discussed it. You even replied to that post.

Edited January 20, 2010 by VentMedic

[JPINFV]

Did you read any of my other posts as to how it has been done in the past?

I just reviewed the entire thread and those replies can fall into one of two categories. Either it doesn't matter if an EMT doesn't speak English because it's just a just a tech certification or that it doesn't matter if an EMT doesn't speak English. While yes, I agree that if at all possible health care teams at any level (hospital, prehospital, out of hospital, etc) should be able to communicate to the patient in the patient's preferred language. However, there's still going to be communication issues if the information from the patient can't be translated to the dominate language of the team. Sure, the EMT that speaks English can give report, however if the history provided by the patient can't be translated into English (since this thread isn't about bilingual providers but having a provider who speaks a language other than English and not in addition to English), then that patient care report isn't going to have any additional information in it anyways. As I posted earlier, I seriously doubt my ability to go to, say, Italy or Mexico and get a job in EMS since I don't speak the local language. Sure, there may be pockets of people who speak primarily English, however that doesn't mean that the people I'm working with professionally will be able to speak English as well.

I did NOT say anything specific about doctors. There are more medical professions than just Doctors and EMTs. I can't and won't cover each and every one of them. I already posted a link about RNs and discussed it. You even replied to that post.

I was confused by the use of the term "medical license." I don't expect each and every health care profession to be discussed, however a medical license isn't a generic term.

Edited January 20, 2010 by JPINFV

[letmesleep]

Unless I'm missing the entire point to this thread, it is my belief that it matters NOT what walk of life a provider comes from as long as they can perform their duties while working on an ambulance, or in a hospital for that matter. How many times have we seen the over weight medic or EMT that completely fills their half of the cab of the truck? How many times have women been questioned about doing the job because they are 5ft 2in and weigh 100lbs soaking wet? I am not bilingual, so am I worthless in the section of my response area because I can't proficiently communicate with a particular culture that I am treating? I work with an EMT at my part time job (on the street) who has an AKA to his left leg with a robotic prosthesis, anybody want to challenge me if on whether or not he can do his job?

If there is such a problem with people who speak another language working in medicine, then how do you treat a pt that doesn't speak your version of the English language? My point is simple, as long as any of these providers can perform their job and be effective then why is it such an issue for anyone here? Does it really matter what language their test was in, or whether it says ambulance on the rear doors of their truck or ambulancia?

[VentMedic]

I just reviewed the entire thread and those replies can fall into one of two categories. Either it doesn't matter if an EMT doesn't speak English because it's just a just a tech certification or that it doesn't matter if an EMT doesn't speak English. While yes, I agree that if at all possible health care teams at any level (hospital, prehospital, out of hospital, etc) should be able to communicate to the patient in the patient's preferred language. However, there's still going to be communication issues if the information from the patient can't be translated to the dominate language of the team. Sure, the EMT that speaks English can give report, however if the history provided by the patient can't be translated into English (since this thread isn't about bilingual providers but having a provider who speaks a language other than English and not in addition to English), then that patient care report isn't going to have any additional information in it anyways. As I posted earlier, I seriously doubt my ability to go to, say, Italy or Mexico and get a job in EMS since I don't speak the local language. Sure, there may be pockets of people who speak primarily English, however that doesn't mean that the people I'm working with professionally will be able to speak English as well.

Patient's preferred language? What is that supposed to mean?

An EMT who only speaks English is at a disadvantage in a community that consists of people speaking another language. If the company is contracted to do routine transports in that community, what service does it do the patient if no one can talk to them? However, it doesn't matter what language you speak if you know your job and have good communication skills even if it is not by words alone. It just helps if the company knows they are contracting to a group that speaks a different language if they can provide at least one person who speaks the language. Isn't that part of good customer service? Routine transfer trucks depend on that and it helps to keep the EMTs employed if the contracts can be obtained.

Again and again and again, this is NOT for 911 EMS. How many times do I have to repeat that? EMTs are not involved in 911 EMS everywhere. How many times do I have to repeat over and over that if the person wants to work for a FD or to attend college for more than just the EMT cert they will have to meet the English proficiency requirements? What part of ENGLISH in my posts are you not able to understand or do you just want to turn this into a pissing match with racial terms?

You obviously have not spent much time in communities, clinics and hospitals where English is not the dominant language. There are places in this country where one could go for days without hearing English. You need to get over seeing Americans as all white English speaking upper middle class heterosexual Republicans.

I was confused by the use of the term "medical license." I don't expect each and every health care profession to be discussed, however a medical license isn't a generic term.

Don't get testy since you are only a few years from being a doctor. I also used the term RN and we already had this discussion. But let me change that to medical professionals with a license.

Edited January 20, 2010 by VentMedic

[tamaith]

The post was not for any specific language ( spanish, russian,etc) and remember it was just a question. Also, did you mean ( vent) emt's are not involved in the fd anywhere? or am i just reading it wrong? I have met emt's that do 911 that are not connected with the fd. How do you know it s not 911? Vent, i believe you when you say there are hospitals that don't speak english as the main language, but if you look at my original post you will notice it says pennsylvania. Im not sure if you are from pa or not but pa is a very conservative state, and even though i have not been to every hospital in the state i can say from what i heard and read that the majority of the hospitals here english is their main language.

[JPINFV]

Patient's preferred language? What is that supposed to mean?

If I, as a patient, speak two languages and a service provider (any service including health care) has the ability to provide an employee who speaks the language that I'm more comfortable with, then it's better to provide that bilingual service. If a person only speaks one language, than that one language is, by default, their preferred language.

An EMT who only speaks English is at a disadvantage in a community that consists of people speaking another language. If the company is contracted to do routine transports in that community, what service does it do the patient if no one can talk to them? However, it doesn't matter what language you speak if you know your job and have good communication skills even if it is not by words alone. It just helps if the company knows they are contracting to a group that speaks a different language if they can provide at least one person who speaks the language. Isn't that part of good customer service? Routine transfer trucks depend on that and it helps to keep the EMTs employed if the contracts can be obtained.

Again and again and again, this is NOT for 911 EMS. How many times do I have to repeat that? EMTs are not involved in 911 EMS everywhere. How many times do I have to repeat over and over that if the person wants to work for a FD or to attend college for more than just the EMT cert they will have to meet the English proficiency requirements? What part of ENGLISH in my posts are you not able to understand or do you just want to turn this into a pissing match with racial terms?

I completely agree that there should be a provider who speaks the patient's language in addition to English. However, just because an ambulance is primarily interfacility doesn't mean that that unit is never going to be involved in an emergency call. Both of the two companies that I've worked for were IFT companies, however at both companies I ran calls going from health care facilities (and every so often private residences) to emergency departments. In my experience, the difference between IFT and 911 isn't as clear cut as IFTs never run emergency calls and companies with 911 contracts only run emergency calls.

You obviously have not spent much time in communities, clinics and hospitals where English is not the dominant language. There are places in this country where one could go for days without hearing English. You need to get over seeing Americans as all white English speaking upper middle class heterosexual Republicans.

...and I'm the one getting testy? Where have I ever said or implied that all Americans are white, middle class, heterosexual Republicans? I would really love a reference to a post where I said or implied something along the lines of "Zomg, I hate dem gay libtards! They need to keep outa my 'bulance!" However, last time I checked, being able to speak English is a condition of citizenship for individuals going through naturalization.

Edited January 20, 2010 by JPINFV

[VentMedic]

I completely agree that there should be a provider who speaks the patient's language in addition to English. However, just because an ambulance is primarily interfacility doesn't mean that that unit is never going to be involved in an emergency call. Both of the two companies that I've worked for were IFT companies, however at both companies I ran calls going from health care facilities (and every so often private residences) to emergency departments. In my experience, the difference between IFT and 911 isn't as clear cut as IFTs never run emergency calls and companies with 911 contracts only run emergency calls.

You are only speaking from experience from the two ambulance services you have worked for. Do you also realize many dispatchers are bilingual that can relay a call for 911? The ambulances services will have bilingual dispatchers and so will 911. You really seem to think that everything is done in English everywhere and all the time.

...and I'm the one getting testy? Where have I ever said or implied that all Americans are white, middle class, heterosexual Republicans? I would really love a reference to a post where I said or implied something along the lines of "Zomg, I hate dem gay libtards! They need to keep outa my 'bulance!" However, last time I checked, being able to speak English is a condition of citizenship for individuals going through naturalization.

Tourists and transient visitors to this country may not want citizenship. Do you also want to force Disney to only sell tickets to English speaking people only? And you can not see where I got my statement from?

The post was not for any specific language ( spanish, russian,etc) and remember it was just a question. Also, did you mean ( vent) emt's are not involved in the fd anywhere? or am i just reading it wrong? I have met emt's that do 911 that are not connected with the fd. How do you know it s not 911? Vent, i believe you when you say there are hospitals that don't speak english as the main language, but if you look at my original post you will notice it says pennsylvania. Im not sure if you are from pa or not but pa is a very conservative state, and even though i have not been to every hospital in the state i can say from what i heard and read that the majority of the hospitals here english is their main language.

Your other thread addressed Russian speaking EMTs and ambulance services.

My posts were to show it is not impossible for this to happen and that is can work out very well for the patient.

Is this one non English speaking EMT you are speaking of the only non English person in PA? Is that what you mean by "conservative state"? If he is surrounded by English, it shouldn't be that difficult for him to pick it up. Again, non English speaking people are not stupid or disabled because of their language.

The FDs in my area prefer the Paramedic cert at time of hire or within the first year. There may be several tests which will be in English to get hired by a FD and to get through the Fire Academy. The EMT is only one of them and probably the easiest for someone to prep them with enough English to pass.

And yes there are places that hire EMTs but not as likely in a state that prides itself in providing all ALS paid EMS to its citizens and is largely Fire Based EMS. The positions for an EMT in 911 will be difficult to come by and when there is an opening there will probably be 500 EMTs applying. Being bilingual in some areas may give you the advantage of the 499 who aren't.

Edited January 20, 2010 by VentMedic