Non-english EMT test in USA?

[Eydawn]

Holy cow! Vent went off the deep end! ROFLMAO...

I agree with JPINFV. This thread is about providing the exam in a language other than English, and does not directly concern those individuals who primarily speak Spanish but have enough working knowledge of English to pass the English test and attain their cert. So let us *not* confuse those two, as they are entirely separate issues.

I agree that someone who doesn't speak English can be a wicked competent care provider at whatever level they are trained at. However, I also have first-hand experience in working with someone who did not read English at all and barely managed to communicate in spoken English in a facility where all of the rest of us didn't speak Somalian. The residents *also* do not speak Somalian. Guess what that meant? Lots of frustration and undue burden on those of us who went out of our way to try to accommodate this woman's language barrier. It turned into a giant fuster-cluck one evening as she was demanding that I tell her who the diabetic residents were so she could serve the correct dessert and I not only didn't know without my cheat sheet, but had my hands full dealing with other issues. I pointed out where the seating chart was and where the diabetic resident list was, and she went ape-shit on me. I could *not* communicate to her what she needed to know at that moment, and she was unable to cope.

I have no doubt that there are phenomenal medical professionals of every ethnicity and language- but you could be the best RN in the world and it wouldn't matter if you couldn't effectively communicate on a daily basis with your patients and co-workers. Maybe your facility is a wonderfully integrated facility with bi/tri-lingual EVERYTHING- scope of practice documents, safety materials, etc. but most facilities (hospitals, EMS providers, take your pick) operate in the primary language of the country with the understanding that the majority of your patients will also speak the dominant language. Those areas that have high concentrations of other-language patients generally offer employment bonuses to individuals who can speak the patient language as well as English...

As far as offering the EMT or CNA test in an alternate language goes, I think it's a bad move unless you have region-specific employers that are specifically seeking other-language ONLY candidates... pretty rare, as far as I can tell. Most places would prefer that you be fully bi-lingual. With EMT specifically, driving is a huge part of the EMT responsibility and so you would want your tech to be able to read maps and street signs and be able to communicate with dispatch via radio... seems to me that all those need to be in English in most parts of the country, so it is counter-productive to offer the EMT test in a language that does not reflect their working responsibilities.

Let's put it this way: should we offer an alternate test to someone who doesn't speak "medical terminology"? They could be masters of the material, with fabulous understanding and patient care ethic... but they can't pass national standard tests (NCLEX, NREMT) because they just aren't good at medical terminology and it confuses them. Should they get a "plain English" version of the test? Or should they be held to the standard of communication that is in our field?

edit to add one more thought...

Also, you mentioned that communication can happen (RE: Puerto Rican VA nurses) but that it is not always ideal... yet workable. Don't we owe our patients the best we can give them without intentionally handicapping ourselves away from the "ideal" of ready, open communication?

Wendy

CO EMT-B

Edited January 21, 2010 by Eydawn

[VentMedic]

It would seem that what you're saying here is that if a program is not housed within an accredited college system that there should then be no standards for it? You could be right...Intuitively that doesn't feel right, but I'll have to give it some thought.

Have you missed all the education threads we have had about the EMT? It is also not included for the accreditation by CoAEMSP. It is a 110 hour cert class that can be taught just about anywhere that can lay claim to a classroom. And how about the standards for the instructors? It can also be taught by bilingual instructors to give those in the class enough exposure to English language for the EMT student to master the few concepts and skills in it. Again, nonEnglish speaking people are not stupid and usually can pick up English medical terminology. But of course if some close their mind and refuse to help them learn what all they may not know, then there might be a problem. Luckily, that doesn't exist in all parts of this country.

You seem to miss what I have stated over and over again. It they know enough English to pass a test that many who speak English fail and they are hired by companies that know their clientele, why are you complaining about qualified people getting an entry level job? The EMT cert again is not that difficult and not every EMT runs 911 calls. I over and over explained that proficient English would be needed for a FD.

So again, if the person can pass a written test in English (THAT MEANS THE OP'S ORIGINAL QUESTION HAS BEEN SATIFIED) and passes the skills stations in English, why do you say they are not entitled to work? You do not know all the employment situations, dispatch situations, crew configurations and hospital situations in all parts of the country. Yes it would probably be so much easier if we did not allow anyone, including tourists, into this country that don't speak English but how are you going to stop that? How are you going to deny someone who does meet the minimal standards for a cert from seeking gainful employment?

it. Is this a problem in China Town if the dominant population, the transfer service and the hospitals all speak a Chinese language? Of course not. But that situation does not describe the majority of the country.

Do you think that an EMT who speaks Chinese or Spanish can not find employment in a hospital that caters to these communities? Or at a dialysis center for transport? Open you eyes, there are many opportunities for those who seek them. The EMT is an entry level cert. The communities these facilities and hospitals serve are over 100,000 people speaking a different language in an area. This is not just one or two patients to cater to. These EMTs probably won't be coming anywhere near you. I already stated that in another post that someone speaking Spanish probably will not be seeking employment in Indiana or Kansas.

If you have never worked out of your own all English speaking area, you may not know what those who speak enough English to pass an EMT test in English are capable of regardless of where they come from. Open your mind a little.

Edited January 21, 2010 by VentMedic

[DwayneEMTP]

Holy shit Vent. I'm with JP, I give. You win.

You've decided to only participate in this thread if you can be belittling and shitty. I'm not sure what's going on with you.

And for the record? My little mind has worked in KAF Afghanistan. That would happen to be a NATO base with about a gazillion nationalities involved. So my guess is that I've been exposed to doing medicine with many, many more different kinds of people than you have.

I'm not sure what's going on with you right now...But I'm sorry to see it.

Dwayne

[VentMedic]

Holy shit Vent. I'm with JP, I give. You win.

You've decided to only participate in this thread if you can be belittling and shitty. I'm not sure what's going on with you.

And for the record? My little mind has worked in KAF Afghanistan. That would happen to be a NATO base with about a gazillion nationalities involved. So my guess is that I've been exposed to doing medicine with many, many more different kinds of people than you have.

I'm not sure what's going on with you right now...But I'm sorry to see it.

Dwayne

Do you live in Afghanistan? Is it your community? I am not saying all this just to be a shithead. I live and work in a predominantly Spanish speaking community.

Besides, the nonEnglish speaking EMT who can still pass a test in English can do all those BS routine calls that so many American EMTs don't want to do or believe they are too well trained and educated for.

Edited January 21, 2010 by VentMedic

[DwayneEMTP]

The name of the thread is, "Non-english EMT test in USA?"

Why are you having so much trouble with that?

And yes, I lived in Afg for many months, and the base environment was my community. Had I lived outside of the wire I would have been near impotent as a provider on the level we understand in the United States. Could I have done the medicine presented in front of me at my current level of education as it relates to treating the signs presented? Sure, but I could not have participated in at the historical/ongoing level, and that is a big part of my job.

Dwayne

[Eydawn]

I'm with Dwayne and JP. You've got yourself backed into this corner of fighting tooth and nail to elevate the single-language non-English provider, everyone else's viewpoints be damned. Again... nobody's got issues with the person who can pass an English exam, because they have English communication skills! How the hell are you MISSING that?

Take a good look back over your posts in the last few weeks. Those of us that know you are starting to wonder what's happening with you. If something's affecting you in your work or personal life, please, look into getting assistance with it. We've never seen you be so illogical and hateful before and it is really confusing a lot of us that have grown to respect you.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[emt/ff456]

Will be much better if the American's EMS personnel speak basic Spanish, that will be a good class for continuing education. we have a large Spanish speaking population in USA.

[Medic One]

Creo que la prueba debe ser en Inglés.

Si usted vive aquí tiene que leer y entender nuestra lengua patria.

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Translation:

I think the test should be in english.

If you live here you need to read and understand our homeland language.

In our service areas we have a lot of Spanish, Portugese and Asians. So not only needing to know atleast basic spanish should we learn Portugese and Asian?

Edited January 21, 2010 by Medic One

[maverick56]

If you have never worked out of your own all English speaking area, you may not know what those who speak enough English to pass an EMT test in English are capable of regardless of where they come from. Open your mind a little.

Pretty sure this whole thread was concerned about providers who do NOT speak enough English to pass an EMT test in English. Hence, the name of thread - "Non-english EMT test in USA". Every responder to this thread has allowed that any provider who is bilingual is at an advantage, not a disadvantage, and may be very capable whether English is their first language or not. The problem lies with those that do not possess the rudimentary English skills required to take an EMT test in the English langauge. Capable as they may be with hands-on skills, there is more to the job and competent communication is a primary requirement.

You seem stuck on the fact that the EMT-B is an "entry-level" position. What difference does that make? I was under the impression that we are trying to further our profession, trying to gain respect and raise our standards. So when does that start? At the paramedic level? Where do you think paramedics come from? Are we only concerned about maintaining a professional standard at the top? Honestly, that just comes across as arrogant to me.

You keep going on about how 1) the EMT test isn't that hard anyway, and 2) not all EMTs work 911. First of all, don't downplay what EMTs have accomplished or their importance to the system. Basic level though it may be, it's the foundation of all EMS and an integral part of the response team. You want to further the growth and professionalism of EMS? Don't derogate it's future. As for the fact that not all EMTs work 911, again, what difference does that make? Not all kindergartners grow up to be writers but still teach all of them their ABCs. The issue here is professional standardization. What's the point of a national certification exam if you're only concerned about local protocols and standards of care? Why don't we just have each service test EMTs to their own standard then, be it 911 or not? Just fragment the system and throw us back into the Dark Ages. Whether an EMT works 911 or not is not the point - the point is that they are capable of doing so.

At this point, you are so far up on your high-horse that you can't even see what the discussion is about anymore. As far as I'm concerned, you're just arguing with yourself and beginning to look quite foolish in the process. The only one displaying a closed mind here is you.

Edited January 21, 2010 by maverick56

[fireflymedic]

We are also talking about the 110 hour EMT cert, less training than the CNA in many places...not Paramedic and not RN. If you don't want this to be an issue, put the EMT into the colleges with required college classes so that the requirements of the U.S. education system can be in effect. It is also possible if we became familar with the "EMT" standards from other countries, U.S. EMS might advance so just maybe their influence could be a good one.

I guess my college based EMT program that was supplemented with A and P, biology, chemistry, algebra, and english and ems ethics was completely worthless. Darn, and here I thought I had picked one of the better programs. If you are choosing to make assumptions - I think you need to think back to your basic class and refresh your memory on where you came from. Not all basics are incompetent. Not as educated - sure - but you don't pop out a medic or an RN - many schools require CNA in order to progress to an RN program and in this area it is strongly encouraged. Remember everybody has to start somewhere.

If 2 EMTs are not required on the truck, this is probably not for 911 calls.

Really? Wow, I guess you've never looked outside your own little window of the world. I've worked for 911 services as a basic that were staffed with nothing more than a driver and a basic and they saw as much (if not more) significant calls that typically an ALS truck would be dispatched. If it isn't there you can't use it. And yes, these were country services, but not everybody can afford dual medic trucks. Some areas that are very rural are extremely fortunate to even have a full time EMS crew. Do they give the highest level of care - obviously not - but do they provide adequate care? You bet ! Just remember all else fails, you're going to be BLS care for a patient. You do your ABC's and you're gonna successfully manage your patient a good majority of the time. There are many services that run 911 with either only a driver and basic or FR and basic - I think you need to open your eyes to the rest of the world and not your narrow corner.