Canadians, put down the crack pipe!

[Dustdevil]

http://news.ca.msn.com/world/cp-article.aspx?cp-documentid=23343180

• By Lee-Anne Goodman, THE CANADIAN PRESS, cp.org, Updated: January 27, 2010 5:33 PM
  
  Obama enjoys rock-star status in Canada despite struggles in the U.S.
  
  WASHINGTON - As U.S. President Barack Obama struggles to reconnect with recession-weary Americans, a new poll suggests his popularity is unrelenting in Canada.
  
  A new Canadian Press-Harris Decima survey says Obama would be elected with a majority north of the border regardless of whether he was leading the Liberals or the Tories.
  
  The survey suggests that if Obama was Liberal leader, 48 per cent of Canadians would vote for the party. That would result in the Tories losing a large chunk of their base, with 30 per cent of them saying they'd vote Liberal if Obama had Michael Ignatieff's job.
  
  If he was at the Conservative helm, 43 per cent of Canadians would cast their ballots for the Tories.
  
  Doug Anderson, president of Harris/Decima, says he suspects the health-care debate that's been raging in the United States for months has likely cemented Canadian affection for Obama.
  
  "That is something that is near and dear to Canadians, and he's out there fighting for it," Anderson said Wednesday, a few hours before Obama was slated to deliver his first offical state-of-the-union address.
  
  "Universal health care is something that we value, and he's espousing its importance down there, and that's something Canadians admire."
  
  Aside from party politics, the poll suggests the majority of Canadians continue to hold a high opinion of the president. Fifty-two per cent of those polled said he's exceeded their expectations since his election, while 15 per cent said he's done as well as they expected him to do. Nineteen per cent gave him a poor performance review.
  
  East of Manitoba, those surveyed gave him particularly positive marks for his job performance. From Manitoba to British Columbia, support was lower, but the majority were still of the view that Obama had done better than expected.
  
  Harris Decima interviewed slightly more than 1,000 Canadians between Jan. 21 and Jan. 24. The survey has margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
  
  The poll results might understandably prompt Obama to ponder a move north of the border, Anderson joked.
  
  "He could have another beavertail," he said, referring to Obama's jubilant visit to the Canadian capital last year, which included an impromptu jaunt to a downtown market to pick up one of the popular Canadian pastries.
  
  In the U.S., meantime, Obama's approval ratings have been sagging and now sit at about 50 per cent.
  
  The president has been humbled in recent weeks by the election of a single Republican to the late Ted Kennedy's Massachusetts Senate seat. Scott Brown's win essentially gives Republicans enough senators to put the brakes to Obama's legislative agenda, including his cherished health-care overhaul.
  
  In his first official state of the union address on Wednesday, Obama was expected to once again try to rally bipartisan support for some form of health-care reform in addition to charting his course for 2010.
  
  Some political observers say Brown's win was a populist repudiation of the president and his progressive politics.
  
  Canadians apparently feel no such distaste for Obama, Anderson said.
  
  "Right now in Canada, people are not soaking up the same kind of negative sentiment that Americans are; they are not feeling the ineffectiveness that some Americans are about him. They see him instead as pursuing something, in health care, that is worth pursuing," he said.
  
  "There has not been a significant reduction in admiration that Canadians have for him. What they see is the kind of persona that they admire and the kind of leader they'd like to see in Canada."

[Kaisu]

I've been in Canada for the last 2 weeks and I remember a lot of stuff about Canadians that I had forgotten.

They are really really nice. Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world. Every language and culture you can imagine is represented. They are extremely educated and literate. The quality of the magazines, documentaries and literature available to (and ** gasp ** actually being read) by the general public is superb.

That being said, Canadians are for a large part, homogeneous in their standards of living. A good school is a good school regardless if it is Nova Scotia or Alberta. They personally will argue that they have regional/ethnic issues and many resent the dominance of Toronto over the national dialogue but the huge fiefdoms (that Americans call states) are not a part of the political structure. The federal government has a lot of power setting standards and controlling the purse strings in spheres that would have Americans marching on Washington to burn the bastards out.

They admire intelligence and the majority of people are what we in the states would consider left of center. I always thought I was a small c conservative (as opposed to the political right in Canada, the captial C Conservative) until I came to the US when I discovered I was a flaming pinko

These people are not afraid. They don't have the crime or the personal connection to war that Americans have and thus see the world as essentially a safe place. (This view was greatly shaken by 9-11 btw.) Most firmly believe that if we all sit down and talk about things, the whole world will play nice.

The general Canadian impression of the red-neck American with a bible under one arm, a bottle of whiskey under the other and a 45 frightens them. They consider themselves more sophisticated and intelligent.

It's a tribute to the American fighting man/woman and his/her willingness to sacrifice for freedom that these cousins of ours safe across the border have so little idea of what it all costs.

PS.. Their health care system and access to it is superb. It takes a lot of fear out of people when they don't have to worry about medical care.

**edited to add the PS **

Edited January 28, 2010 by CrapMagnet

[emtannie]

I've been in Canada for the last 2 weeks and I remember a lot of stuff about Canadians that I had forgotten.

They are really really nice. Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world. Every language and culture you can imagine is represented. They are extremely educated and literate. The quality of the magazines, documentaries and literature available to (and ** gasp ** actually being read) by the general public is superb.

That being said, Canadians are for a large part, homogeneous in their standards of living. A good school is a good school regardless if it is Nova Scotia or Alberta. They personally will argue that they have regional/ethnic issues and many resent the dominance of Toronto over the national dialogue but the huge fiefdoms (that Americans call states) are not a part of the political structure. The federal government has a lot of power setting standards and controlling the purse strings in spheres that would have Americans marching on Washington to burn the bastards out.

They admire intelligence and the majority of people are what we in the states would consider left of center. I always thought I was a small c conservative (as opposed to the political right in Canada, the captial C Conservative) until I came to the US when I discovered I was a flaming pinko

These people are not afraid. They don't have the crime or the personal connection to war that Americans have and thus see the world as essentially a safe place. (This view was greatly shaken by 9-11 btw.) Most firmly believe that if we all sit down and talk about things, the whole world will play nice.

The general Canadian impression of the red-neck American with a bible under one arm, a bottle of whiskey under the other and a 45 frightens them. They consider themselves more sophisticated and intelligent.

It's a tribute to the American fighting man/woman and his/her willingness to sacrifice for freedom that these cousins of ours safe across the border have so little idea of what it all costs.

PS.. Their health care system and access to it is superb. It takes a lot of fear out of people when they don't have to worry about medical care.

**edited to add the PS **

CM, although I realize you are a Canadian citizen, by your own admission, you have not lived in Canada for many years.

I would like to respond to several of your comments.

"The general Canadian impression of the red-neck American with a bible under one arm, a bottle of whiskey under the other and a 45 frightens them."

I would argue not so. I suspect you are speaking from a Toronto point of view, which, as a Western Canadian, just reinforces why the western provinces don't think as highly of Toronto as Toronto thinks they should. You come to my neck of the woods, and that comment you just made would describe most of the people for 100 miles here. Afraid? Afraid of what? Please do not speak of the "general Canadian impression" - that is a gross generalization that is completely inaccurate.

"It's a tribute to the American fighting man/woman and his/her willingness to sacrifice for freedom that these cousins of ours safe across the border have so little idea of what it all costs."

I am COMPLETLY offended by this statement - this statement sounds like it comes out of an American citizen's mouth, not a Canadian's, and you should be ashamed.

Please do your research on the contributions Canadian forces have made throught the years, and the sacrifices that Canadian soldiers have made, including the number of times that they were on the front lines of major battles where the US troops were non-existant.

I would like to remind you of the number of Canadian troops that are currently serving in Afghanistan - and oh yeah - where have the US troops been? The US government decided that Osama was a secondary target and they had to protect their oil interests in Iraq instead - so who was taking care of business in Afghanistan? CANADIANS and other countries. It has only been recently that the US has returned its focus to Afghanistan.

Don't you DARE tell me I don't know what it all costs. I have lost relatives serving in the military - I have friends serving in Afghanistan right now.

Again, you make a completely biased, uneducated blanket statement.

The original post by Dust was based on one article, where I would suspect that the majority of the people surveyed were in only 1 part of Canada - again a gross generalization and misrepresentation of the Canadian population. You have chosen to continue that generalization with your comments.

Yes, Canadians are protective of their health care system. It has served them very well - I have friends in the US who are in the process of remortgaging everything they own, and working sevferal jobs, so their son can have surgery (yes, they have insurance, but it will only cover 75% of the cost of a $300,000 heart surgery)..... this would NEVER happen in Canada. When I compare that isolated incident to the care that I receive, I am glad to be where I am.

I wouldn't be nearly so angry about your post if you had said "from my point of view" rather than "Canadians for the large part" and "the general Canadian impression." Do not generalize, and do not speak for me.

[HERBIE1]

As anyone familiar with numbers knows, polls and stats can be made to say whatever you want them to say. Obama is still very popular here in very specific areas and among certain demographics. Still, his overall approval ratings are low- regardless of which poll you see. Obviously that would mean there are some areas/groups that are VERY unhappy with him so far to offset those who are still wildly enthusiastic.

Some in Canada may very well support the guy, and as far as I'm concerned, they can have him. I'll even pay for the plane ticket. He's no different than anyone else- except he talks a good game and can enthrall people with his rhetoric. That makes him a good politician, not necessarily a good leader.

[mobey]

-1 Crapmagnet.

Pull your head out.....

[Richard B the EMT]

...many resent the dominance of Toronto over the national dialogue but the huge fiefdoms (that Americans call states) are not a part of the political structure.

Forgive this international politically uneddicated commentary, but, is "fiefdom" an actual word to use instead of Provences, indicating what I perceive as an equivalent of States?

[tniuqs]

Obama enjoys rock-star status in Canada despite struggles in the U.S.

Ok so is whats the name of this Obama Guy's Band ?

Could we rename this thread how to stereotype from a news reporters rose coloured glasses ? good grief.

It's a tribute to the American fighting man/woman and his/her willingness to sacrifice for freedom that these cousins of ours safe across the border have so little idea of what it all costs.

WHOO NELLY ... rounds of ipecac I am buying !

I tell U what ... thats the most ignorant thing anyone has ever posted on EMT City ... bar none.

So I will tell you one thing about Kanukistanians I know to be true ... we are tolerant to a point but piss us off and you just found some of the planets biggest ass kickers and just ask AK what the our boys are doing in Afghanistan ..they are planting many many Taliban firmly in the dirt taking the fight to them ... not sitting around like the other pussy coalition forces !

btw crapmagnet you just pissed ME OFF ! I will kill you last .

Edited January 28, 2010 by tniuqs

[Kaisu]

Forgive this international politically uneddicated commentary, but, is "fiefdom" an actual word to use instead of Provences, indicating what I perceive as an equivalent of States?

Fiefdom is my ironic word of choice for the states that comprise our union. It did not refer to Canadian provinces. I used it in the sense that states rights (and the accompanying disparities among states) are a larger part of our political reality than I perceive the issue in Canada. I lived for 40 years in Canada and to relocate from one province to another was easier with less of a required adjustment than moving from one state to another. In Canada, your movement is to a large extent, limited to east and west, along and close to the 49th parallel. In the US, the difference from the post industrial North East and the newly exploding (until this latest recessionary hiccup) South West are profound.

EMT Annie -

these comment are of course my personal opinion. It is posted in a forum of opinions. You sound like the corporate attorneys that insist that all my postings explicitly state that these are my personal views only and not representative of my company. Who else's opinion would it be?

While my most recent comments are colored by a Toronto view, I lived in the city for a mere 1 year as a young woman. I lived for over 5 years in Alberta and the animosity of Alberta to Toronto is almost legendary. The little dog always knows what the big dog is doing, whereas the big dog notices the little dog only when it's yapping becomes annoying. Most of my life was lived in Thunder Bay, and many Thunder Bay residents are resentful of what they perceive as the dominance that Toronto holds. If you spend any amount of time here in Southern Ontario, it becomes obvious that this is where most of the people live, this is where most of the money is and thus, in a system of majority rules, this is where policy and direction come from. - sorry - I didn't create this situation and am merely commenting on it.

As far as Canadians serving in Afghanistan and your personal knowledge of it - Thank your relatives for serving. God bless them and thank you all for your sacrifice. If you take a look at the per capita COMBAT troop contributions you have to acknowledge that Americans pay by far the greatest price. You may dispute the political motivations for the involvement but the average American citizen has paid a much higher price than the average Canadian citizen. Canadians indisputably in harm's way serve a larger role in "peace keeping" and support functions than US citizens. The ration of deaths and disabling injuries per capita is larger for Americans than the coalition forces.

If you read my post carefully, I am extremely supportive of Canadian Health Care and my prime disenchantment with Obama is his selling out to the insurance companies for short term political gain as I elucidate in this post. http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/topic/17205-news-feed-senate-oks-health-care-measure-reaching-milestone/page__p__231806__fromsearch__1&#entry231806

And Mobey

Pull your head out.....

Care to expand on this a bit?

btw crapmagnet you just pissed ME OFF ! I will kill you last .

Aww.. does that mean you don't love me anymore?

[emtannie]

CM,

I was pointing out that your personal opinion was poorly stated as it was filled with gross generalizations that I took offense to. As a public forum, as it is your right to post your opinion, it is also my right to post mine, and argue against yours.

Thank you for your comment that I sound like a corporate attorney – I will take that as a compliment of my educational background.

You have stated in your most recent post in this thread that you are merely commenting that American citizens have paid a higher price – I am suggesting that should have been what you said in the first post, not “these cousins of ours safe across the border have so little idea of what it all costs." Oh we have a very good idea of what it costs… and when you get your Bachelors degree in Economics (which, by the way, I have) you will take courses that show that the American economy is built on war – the American government brought this on their own citizens. The USA has been in a major conflict every decade since WWII. The American citizen has paid a higher price because that is what their government has chosen, and their citizens through their voting – please do some research on the peace-keeping missions Canadian troops have been on in the last 6 decades.

Your comments showed that you think Canadians “have so little idea of what it all costs.” My point was that this is a gross generalization that is incorrect and inaccurate, and offensive to many of the Canadians on this site. I suspect that this is the comment that other Canadians are reacting to with their posts as well.

I suspect that if I said “Americans are ignorant of the sacrifices Canadians have made, and make, and think that Canada does nothing in the international arena,” many Americans would argue vehemently that this is not true. This comment is not an opinion, it is a generalization, and there is a big difference. Now, if I had said “I think that most Americans are ignorant of the sacrifices…” this is an opinion, not a generalization. You may say that this is semantics, but it does make a huge difference to interpretation.

I realize that you are supportive of Canadian healthcare. My argument was that unlike the one survey that Dust posted, many of us do not fit into that “We like Obama” category.

You can be offended and angry at my response, and I am ok with that - even angry dialogue is still dialogue and we can all learn from it. I learn from your posts (and I really enjoy most of your posts), and I hope you learn from mine.

[Kaisu]

I love reading what you write Annie... and I love this dialog. Your statement that most Americans are unaware of Canadian contributions is right on the money. In terms of under appreciation of military sacrifices and the costs of service to the enlisted personnel and their families, I believe that Americans are at least as ignorant of this as Canadians. My husband has a T-shirt that says "The price of freedom is one the protected will never know". As a Vietnam combat vet with 125+ air assaults under his belt, serving in the Central Highlands in 67 and 68 and with participation in Hue during Tet, he has the right to wear it.

The USA has been in a major conflict every decade since WWII. The American citizen has paid a higher price because that is what their government has chosen, and their citizens through their voting

The citizens vote this way because of what I believe is a more accurate view of global realities than that held by those not exposed to these realities. There was a middle eastern immigrant in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago that killed his own daughter because she was becoming too "westernized". I don't have to elucidate to you the mentality that believes it is OK to publicly behead infidels or the myriad of other atrocities that are perpetrated on the innocents of the world. Someone has to be prepared to stand up to this and put their lives on the line if necessary. This is the reason American young people are prepared to go to war and this is why they fight. I'm not saying evil people don't exploit this willingness for profit but this is not the reason we fight.

I applaud your education. My world view is perhaps colored by the horrid abuses of power that I personally experienced and my survival and thriving without the benefit of education. (I did take some college level courses in economics btw and I loved it. So elegant.)